Fuck You Fuck You Thread

Discussion in 'Whatever' started by patrickvaz, Apr 1, 2017.

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  1. badteethcomics

    badteethcomics Post Pimp

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    Fuck You Fuck You Thread
    Short answer is that Shig is a pretty nice guy (who just happens to sell his toys/art at a higher price) and Martin is making $$$ off of other people's hard work and in turn retarding the sofubi scene with artificial pricing. Also in the few PMs he sent me before blocking me years ago he came off as a twat.
     
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  2. IronPaw

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    Totally had a newer collector pull this shit on me years ago. They got something RxH related and straight up told me they only got it to try and get something I had. To my face. Told them to never hit me up with that nonsense because i fucking hate it. Of course they don’t even collect anymore.
     
  3. Paulkaiju

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    Yes indeedy!
    I also didn't appreciate one Japan trip he was sneaking around the factory taking pics of molds (Our property) and posting them without even asking. Just goes to show. One sneaky user.
     
  4. xSuicide Squadx

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    @Rich I'll start out by sayin' any and all topical comments I'd made about families, kids, living expenses and shit were only in direct response to mine and Emanuel's tidbit, though I do think someone in your position as both an artist and family man holds weight on the topic. Interesting take on full time toys being similar to that of growing within a company and earning raises, and such. Not one I'd ever considered before.

    I don't think anyone's sayin' artists should live like monks, or anything of that nature. My position is strictly from that of wishful thinking. It'd be great if artists in demand would produce enough that prices could be kept within the general market of affordability, while still making a healthy living, and it can be done. Kaws as a given example, is a great example of this now. Highly prolific, and still does occasional open runs. But that's something that's really in control of individual artists, and I'm not personally holding that against anyone. If *I* can't afford it, I can't afford it, and I just step back. But I understand the position of fans that can no longer carry on with certain artists they love/support because of the increase of price, rather than output, and their contention with it.

    I think artists are shamed for talking about monies, or pricing, or anything of that nature, because I can't think of anything more subjective than art(except maybe religion). What an artist deems their worth through their work isn't at all far fetched, but it just might be to collectors, even other artists. It's an incredibly thin line, and one that I do think both does and doesn't warrant the criticism. I've seen artists in the past begrudge the aftermarket prices of certain toys, that, their own toys supersede at retail, and also artists getting pissed because someone prices their toys "too low" and it's killing their market. Again, it's all subjective, and it's cause and reason for literally everyone to talk about it. Touchy subject? Sure. But it's relevant nonetheless.

    Like you said, though. All artists can do is try. So long as the market is there, obviously something is being done right, but not by everyone, and even that's okay, too.
     
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  5. analog101

    analog101 Addicted

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    Fuck You Fuck You Thread
    Being a full time toy maker is a risky job with no retirement benefits, healthcare, or predictable salary. They serve a fickle marketplace. Today's Nag is tomorrow's Cronic (Not a knock on either maker). Artists have the right to manage sales and retail prices in whatever way they think will best preserve their career and life. If you disagree, collect another maker, there are plenty of people making great stuff at a variety of different price points.

    In terms of Martin, the scene is just big enough that anyone seriously collecting and meeting/dealing with different people forms their own opinions about how other members engage in said hobby. I don't particularly care for the way Martin does business, so I don't do business with him, other people are free to do what they will. Spend time with the ones you like and avoid the ones you don't. For every douche bag trying to sell you yesterday's release at 10X the price, someone else is willing to let you crash on their couch so you can attend a show.
     
  6. hellscrape

    hellscrape Comment King

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    Fuck You Fuck You Thread
    You want it, pony up. It it's too much or seems like a rip off, move on. These are toys, WANTS and not NEEDS, regardless of people saying on IG or elsewhere saying they need it. Noone needs this stuff, and it really shouldn't be the cause of so much heartache and complaining. There's a lot of cool stuff that I want that I can't afford or refuse to pay flipper or absurd retail prices. That's fine.
     
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  7. coma21

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    Fuck You Fuck You Thread
    I don't have an issue with known makers raising their prices. I feel similar to Rich on that as I believe that its part of the growth of there brand or company. That said I do take issue with people showing up and wanting $400 right out the gate for some 6" 4 pull toy. I am bothered by that gimme gimme attitude. I also don't really like flippers but I'm also not naive enough to think in the current landscape that they are going anywhere or that we can be rid of them. With that in mind I will say that flipping does in fact serve a purpose. Toys can move hands often but rarely will a fan let go of something they love at retail unless something bad happens to them. Flippers even though they are charging more help to put pieces into hands of people who have never been able to go to an event or show and may spark a new collector into a person we all actually enjoy. It might just start with a $300 boss flipped from $150 and next thing you know that guy is a huge PK guy and owns like 15 mockbats he just needed that first taste of crack.
    While on the subject why aren't we discussing the leeches across the ocean that are hitting you up at 3am offering you 1k for a toy you paid $100 for and when you say no guilt tripping you. Like how is that ok I feel like that's just as bad as flipping. If I buy something for the right reasons and enjoy it and some one wakes me up at 3am to offer me a grand for it and then make me feel bad for saying no how does that make sense.
     
  8. kid_miracleman

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    Fuck You Fuck You Thread
    Can I just say right now this forum is at its best? These are the kind of interesting, thoughtful dialogs we should be having as a community. The posturing out there on IG right now is fucking insane. Here you can have a real conversation with people you respect even if you disagree with them vehemently.

    So yeah, kudos to everyone so far. EXCEPT YOU ROBERT YOU ROTTEN BASTARD (j/k <3)

    Who makes that judgement about who is greedy though? Is greed a 2x price hike over 4 years? What if it's 2 years? What if he had production issues? What if he just does something crazy good once in a blue moon and charges an arm and a leg for it? What makes toy X of equal size, joints, etc, worth $X and the same thing from his neighbor double? This whole situation is just too slippy slope to become militant in any one direction IMO. If you somehow ban anyone who you could remotely perceive as a flipper you'd have a stagnant collector base.

    I will say this ain't a poor man's hobby. Even if flipping didn't exist most people will look at you with utter shock that you spent $80 on a RealHead toy and you have 140 of them :lol:

    I am thankful to be in a position that this hobby, while pricey, is still manageable for me without any major sacrifice. One thing that really makes me look sideways are the hustlers in this game: dudes posting every 2 hours in IG, DMing people left and right, moving toys like a mafioso in the front door and out the back. I just cannot mentally put that much energy in this weird ass uptrading so many people are doing.

    I have a pretty good bullshit detector that triggers on occasion with those types of collectors. Those are usually the ones I dislike the most and eventually someone else always confirms with evidence that I was right :lol:

    Let's be honest here; some people are just in the wrong hobby.

    You cannot have an OCD-level collecting compulsion in this hobby, a sense of entitlement and a financial limitation in this hobby. If you have to have everything, then you need to be prepared to pay for everything. if you can't, then you better spend that money on a therapist to help you with your OCD, because this shit will drive you batty.

    You have to exhibit self control. Would I love to have a Test Bite Leviathan in my collection? Sure! Could I afford the 4 grand or so it would cost me to get one? Yes, but I'm not going to spend that much because I just couldn't look at myself in the mirror. I've paid flip a few times for some choice pieces, including my absolute favorites. Just everything in moderation, but because so many people can't follow that rule and just hurl themselves 4 figures deep into credit card debt to get something, it's a way bigger problem. So it become borderline junkie-like behavior: doing morally shady shit to get your next temporary dopamine fix.

    Man, have I seen Bemon light up like a Christmas tree with a certain type of collector lately. They aren't even subtle about it at this point.
     
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  9. Rich

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    Fuck You Fuck You Thread
    This conversation is for sure needed every few years if we as a collective whole want to or not. It’s annoying and repetitive but the hobby changes and so do options. I can say for sure I’ve made many mistakes and judgements on other artist... until I was in their shoes.

    The thing is I’m also an active collector even though now a days I keep it all to myself. I don’t post what so ever but I buy all the time. Even that has changed my opinion on what any potential collector is doing or how they enjoy it since I’ve been one to post and one who buys and boxes it in storage.

    But conversations like this, when we’re all being cool with each other is valuable to get both sides of collector and artist. I may not post but I do follow.

    I’ve realized any collectible is insanely subjective. Even what one may justify is a reasonable price, would be the dumbest shit ever to some one who isn’t into toys. It’s so personal that every opinion you have from cost to who you collect is only for you ( the general you)

    I think it’s safe to say most of us collect a bunch of things not just toys. We just talk here about this one part of our lives. So I think it’s just either your a collector or not ( toys, posters, furniture ...) . Collectors will go over everything with a fine tooth comb on all subjects because that’s what we do, and people who don’t collect think we’re all assholes.
     
  10. JoeMan

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    I also found him to be a nice guy the night I hung out with him. But he’s also the same guy who made probably the most blatantly racist toy prototype ever, posted it on his website and then removed it to call his translator a I FART A LOT on the site after she couldn’t get the sucklord to agree to do packaging for it. He’s also the same guy who physically attached Sato-San and made a bunch of homophobic slurs at him. But this is what I mean, everyone will form a unique opinion based on their own interaction. There are plenty of toy makers out there pricing reasonably I still think are asses and plenty who are nice but who’s toys I just don’t like. And I’m sure there are plenty who don’t like me or my toys. While others do. Not trying to bust your balls bud, or tel you not to collect Nag. Just saying plenty of people have negative perceptions about some guys you rep.
     
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  11. badteethcomics

    badteethcomics Post Pimp

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    Interesting that you say this - because I know from conversations with other board members that somebody on these boards who collects Target Earth stuff maybe has been spreading quite vile rumors about Shig.. like to the level of making up some pretty sick and offensive stories etc. Surprisingly people believed these stories - and why not, this boardie telling these stories is seen as a noble collector by some and certainly likes to portray himself that way so of course people would believe what comes out of his mouth. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of of members have based their judgments on similar rumors and stories... @JoeMan did you personally witness the Sato attack? Or were you there with his female translator when this Sucklord thing happened?

    I know all too well what it's like to have rumors/stories going on behind your back and being unable to defend myself.. the recent ban from Skullbrain comes to mind. So just trying to show the other side of the coin here... and yeah coins have both sides, I'm sure Shig has been an asshole from time to time as we all have been. Although I'm sure not to the extreme extent that some of the stories going around the scene are suggesting.

    Anyway @JoeMan I'm sorry if my instagram message was taken the wrong way when I saw the Kaijumonster collab last week - I don't mean to cause any beef between you and I.

    PS @Paulkaiju I'm glad there's something we can agree about!!
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2019
  12. JoeMan

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    No worries Glenn, I love ya, friends can disagree with each other. I was hanging out with shig the night he was in NY before the sucklord thing and was told of it later by others we were hanging with. I also know who you are talking about with the sato-San thing, but no I was told long before by a close acquaintance of Shig shortly after it happened.
     
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  13. Russblue11

    Russblue11 S7 Royalty

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    Fuck You Fuck You Thread
    The thing with those KAWS open orders is, the mass order quantity leads to a huge drop in quality. I saw multiple pictures of his toys with scratches and fractured limbs from just being packaged and shipped. Similarly, Anraku Ansaku’s Medicom Gogas had joint issues and lately people have been posting bubble and paint issues with the Marusan releases. And the whole open run can backfire in unexpected ways, just look at Paul Kaiju x Blobpus King Jinxes and all those MVH meat marbles that have been painted over...poorly
     
  14. ungawa222

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    ^I was just about to post the same sentiment. Really enjoyed reading these last few pages, and how respectful and cool everyone has stayed with each other in a type of discussion that could easily go sideways. Nice jorb, sb! Also, I learned the phrase "sperg out".
    (Well, "learned" is a stretch... I have no idea what it means.)
     
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  15. skaldavsatanssol

    skaldavsatanssol Toy Prince

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    Fuck You Fuck You Thread
    This whole ‘artists are running businesses, if you can’t keep up with their newest tier than move on’ and ‘flippers offer a service’ business is all well and good but if we’re all being honest I’ll say personally it’s not why I got into the hobby. Is this a hobby for ‘rich people’ if we’re being realistic? Well I beg to differ because I live on a modest payrate, I’m supporting a family and I manage to swing what I can. Perfectly acceptable if it’s all excused under the umbrella term ‘art’ and this can justify any esteemed artist raising prices but I entered into this hobby as a fan of an underground, DIY punk toys (toy punks vol.1 anyone?) and ended up in a sea of bourgeois chumps who amidst pissing contests know fuck all about this hobby. Each Garamon ‘homage’ that comes out is another worthless cash grab and these peeps will lap it up. Perhaps it’s like Rick and Morty where the content itself might be OK but the fans themselves are the most irritating thing about it. Case in point:

    [​IMG]
    And hey, if the artists can live with what their fanbases have become then so be it. I only recall David Bowie doing a live Velvet Underground cover in the early days then feeling disillusioned because he realised not many of his audience wouldn’t even recognise who the fuck they are. This is why Mori still rules. He rolls with the punches and focuses more on the ’toy’ side of this ‘toy art’ subculture. I know that this won’t align with everyone’s opinion but I hope it represents those who share it.

    Written at the Gallery of Modern Art, NSW.
     
  16. xSuicide Squadx

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    @kid_miracleman I'd imagine that's not too far off from actual internal responses, though I can't say I'd blame anyone. I'm not at all confident in knowing what the hell I'm talking about more than half the time.

    @Rich I wholeheartedly agree the conversation should happen! I can't quite say it's annoying, though it can be redundant. But I think every time it's brought up new perspectives and opinions are expressed that weren't before, as can a new level of understanding be come to.

    There's always going to be two sides to the pricing: retail level, and aftermarket level. Whatever anyone and everyone deems as worthy or fair regarding both isn't necessarily right or wrong. And I do think there's a huge difference between complaining and discussing/opinions. I don't really believe in the idea of "if you can't afford it/don't like it, don't buy it, and be quiet" idea because that eliminates discussions like these, where artists and collectors might gain valuable insight.

    What's a full time job for some artists is still a hobby for collectors, and not everyone can be on the same financial page with one another, and even that's okay. But it's still something to be said about the state of this hobby in its current climate, and both sides should be able to say it.

    @Russblue11 That's a very, very good point, and one I hadn't actually considered. QC issues can definitely come about higher when factories are pressed to put out huge numbers. Though I can't say the Meat Marble Sludgie, Zug and Rotten Rexx were bad. Huge numbers, but there weren't actually quality issues; Dennis killed it. The aftermath of people doing whatever they were allowed to do with 'em, however, is a totally different story.
     
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  17. Paulkaiju

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    [​IMG]
     
  18. Rich

    Rich Die-Cast

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    Great points !

    I can tell from recent purchases KAWS toys have gone down in QC. And why I didn’t buy the Anraku when they came out, I wanted to see before I snagged one.

    This is the thing with indi makers. The quality control. Some makers rush, some makers will spend farrrr too much time with the details. THIS is also a factor in price compared to others. Yes it’s a toy, yes it s painted. But some makers will spend uncounted hours making sure spray fades are flawless, brush work is clean and packaging has that one extra staple so the bag closes just right. Or going with a 4mm poly bag because the 2mm bags tear easy. ALL these factors go into price as well. So more food for thought on price.

    As for the open run, yeah sorry but never again. I have to cap it. Not out of greed, out of what happens with them.

    I offered them so everyone that truly wanted one could get one, and a matching sludgie.


    People bought them to paint or what ever. So now this floods the world with terrible customs new collectors think are my paint work. Which makes me look bad. Because I take extreme pride in my work and this isn’t how I want to be represented.

    These are all things that never get brought up. So when people get mad about no open or pre orders this is one of the many factors learned from experience.

    Quality control is essential with this as a maker. I make sure everything I send out is as best I can get it. And even then something slips by.

    So another factor to think about in price.

    Again, it’s such a vast topic to chew.
     
  19. kid_miracleman

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    Fuck You Fuck You Thread
    I think that is a topic that doesn't get talked much about in the pricing discussion: experience.

    I had a toy arrive where it wasn't packed well enough so I got it with the legs all scuffed up.

    I had a toy for Kaiju Cult that looked gorgeous. Problem was as I was staging it putting in the weapon for a photo the paint just flaked right off. I didn't do anything wrong because I've done this a million times. Maybe the vinyl was cheap. Maybe they forgot to clear coat it to protect. Maybe it was the wrong kind of paint. All things I haven't ever had to worry about with other painters/toy brands. The talent is there but the experience was not.

    Hell, even when it comes to your sales systems at shows. Those coins ain't free and they don't magically distribute and track themselves. Setting up the whole RSVP list takes time, which I'm sure can vary greatly depending on how it is built.

    People need to recognize that a toy is more than just the thing that ends up in the shelf. No art will ever be a formula yet people still think because a toy had 2 less joints than something of roughly equal size it should naturally cost less. What if the artist took 10 times as long to sculpt it?

    Experience is nothing but time. People need to keep in mind that one thing is universally true; time is money.
     
  20. Rich

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    Another great point, even something I didn’t consider, the cost of experience. The trail and error this all counts to make better art.
     
  21. JoeMan

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    Time is a much more valuable commodity than money, you can always find a way to make more money, you can never make more time. It’s something I’ve thought about a lot lately, all the time I’ve spent on toys in the last 10 years that should have been spent elsewhere.
    It’s the reason I’ve done the last 2 five points and Dcon, because I realized making toys shouldn’t be a pissing contest or done to stroke your own ego, it should be part of something bigger which is giving the community a reason to gather and have fun together, because that is what is important, the relationships and the people. Life changes and you never how involved you will be in the future. But I hope more artists realize this.

    Anyway I’m done for the night, goodnight Skullbrain, it’s been a good one.
     
  22. xSuicide Squadx

    xSuicide Squadx Super Deformed

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    @JoeMan You, Paul and Headlock were my only save graces for attending DCon last year, but I always go first and foremost to make my rounds, say my hello’s, give my hugs, and have my conversations. If I attended DCon to just buy some shit and leave, that’d be such an empty experience. And I’m always appreciative for the travel of all three aforementioned.

    I’ve thought about this quite a bit myself, and it’s been a HUGE part of why I’ve been in such a better place, and haven’t wanted to blow my brains out in the past year. I really have focused so much more of my time outside of social media and the like, and more on people and activities around me. Obviously with this place and Instagram I still implement my creative ventures with this hobby and “photography” to be a part of it, but I am more and more finding the right balance for me. This was a rad sentence to read.
     
  23. Mr. Humphreys

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    ^^^ That becomes a LOT easier to understand in your mind and heart, as you get older and time starts to run out. It's easier to let things go.... grudges, hard feelings, expectations, disappointments, etc... and you learn to be a lot less judgemental, have more patience, allowing all the negativity directed your way to roll off you more easily, and have more confidence in yourself--a humble type of confidence (realizing how little you really know, and how much more there is to learn and experience, ahhhh but for time!). What others think of you becomes less important (if not nil) -- whether it's material things and/or you as a person, and you finally realize that those who are left who like/love you for who you are, are the ones that count. When your relatives and friends pass on and everyone you know starts leaving you behind, life is boiled down in your mind to a fine essence in a crucible. Time is something you can never recover, buy, trade, or stall -- don't waste it.
     
  24. xSuicide Squadx

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    @Mr. Humphreys Very, very well stated, Grace. I’m a big grudge holder, and admittedly(aka unhealthily, though it’s deep seeded) vengeful, but as I’ve gotten older I feel like it’s been a bit easier to let go of petty squabbles and not waste mine or the other party’s time. Certainly have grown more patient, though my self confidence resides in the bowels it’s always lived, while my confidence in those I’m lucky to keep around me spikes. Can’t argue with that trade off!

    Even with conflicting and opposing views, I’m glad this most recent topic could be discussed in full civility. Almost to the point that it makes me feel uneasy. :lol: But I do thoroughly appreciate Joe’s ending point of view here.
     
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  25. Mr. Humphreys

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    Thank you Robert! :D Believe me, it took me a loooong time to finally get there :oops:. Don't get me wrong, I can still get quite emotional over things or a situation, but it's usually because something hit me out of the blue or something unexpected happened. 99.9% of the time, after the moment is over, then I let it pass. Unfortunately I'm still prone to hurling annihilations of temper, once in a blue moon--I'm still human :oops:, but I also feel remorse for it afterwards and try to apologize if I can. One thing I try to remember is it's so true what they say, that if you harbor the negativity, grudges, and/or vengeful feelings, you hurt yourself more than the person who "hurt" you--most likely the person who caused the offense will quickly forget the incident, and it's you left holding the 'beaker of acid' that eats away at your soul if you let it. Much better to move on, as long as there is no real harm or danger. Otherwise you still have to work out the consequences, but hopefully in a constructive way. The longer you hold on to the bad feelings, the more suffering it causes for you, and also it doesn't do anyone good to suffer when it's within your power to let go--you'll have to eventually or else it will cause harm. One thing I try to savor, are the blessings that come along, even the small ones. Most of us are so lucky and take so much more for granted, that we forget to be thankful. What I find most difficult these days, is the passing of a loved one (human and 4-legged ones), because at least on this earth, it's permanent. So don't forget to tell your friends and family that you love them (say it now, because when they're gone, you'll regret you never told them or hugged them), and also show it in your actions, don't wait for tomorrow and spend time with them too.
     
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