Hirota Saigansho: Gorilla-ju, Mecha Gorilla-ju, & Others

In my opinion, it’s not that some people can afford it that’s the frustrating part. It’s the desperate, frothing at the mouth and complete lack of self respect and dignity some have(or don’t have) when begging to be chosen for the privilege of spending a shit ton of monies on toys that carry more social value than they do proclaimed “artistic” value. How an HxS Ultra Man or Gigan is vastly “superior” to Bullmark or Siccaluna that it warrants hundreds or even thousands of dollars in price gaps, is so beyond me. The reason I see collectors get priced out is because the deep pocket fanatics can’t fathom not being able to make someone else green eyed over what they have on their shelves, so the hype and attention and “gimme, gimme, need, need” attitudes pretty much green light artists to charge whatever they want, ‘cause a small percentage of well off collectors(in whatever form or fashion) will let them get away with it for the opportunity of social media bragging rights. And honestly, great for the artists. But this whole idea of “if you can’t afford it and they can, who cares, let people be happy” is a little one sided and nonsensical. They’re fuckin’ toys. Not cars or jewelry or houses or whatever misnomer comparison you wanna make. Collectors are allotted to be bummed when they’re priced out of toys they’d like to collect just as much as collectors are allotted to be happy when they can afford it. My personal favorite are the ones that can afford it, but aren’t part of the elite and are just as outside the fence as those priced out, just begrudged for a totally different ostracizing, and are equally as vocal. Majority of the people that say “who cares” either don’t collect the expensive shit, or they’re the ones that collect all of it.

 

Perspective is going to be quite different from collectors who are the "inner circle", especially if you consistently have access and the ability to buy a toy, art, etc... And from pics of your collection, you are fortunate to have both (IG if I'm not mistaken). Relative scale of wealth is ever present, there is always someone who will have more than you, with maybe the possible exception of the elite Elons on planet earth. Irregardless of how much wealth or influence we have, our individual tastes and opinions will differ. Preference, opinion, perspective are also personal, so attempting to quantify a person's validity is dubious if not arrogant. While I do enjoy seeing some of the HxS toys, I prefer other makers. Sharing and seeing what toys we all have on our shelves is fun! It's also great to be part of a community to share discussions and enthusiasm for toys.

 

I guess $300 is pricey. It doesn't feel like it to me sincerely and I'd wager most in here would buy that HxS mini for $300. This is just a factual figure I cited to counter negative hyperbole ("One toy is a year of mortgages"). I've paid $300 for various toys from various makers in various sizes. The sentiment that things should remain how they've always been strikes me as outdated. (If this is your stance, prepare yourself because the next 5-10 years will be jarring with AI and quantum computing...) Toys may have been meant for the masses before, or maybe not, but no independent makers could ever produce toys for the masses, so not sure how these roots apply to any of the toy makers we collect in this niche hobby. Hirota being second generation carries immense authenticity versus any collectors in my opinion - he is the roots. He's a one man shop creating, distributing and marketing his brand. I don't think I'm in a position to determine what his cost should be. Also, I don't derive additional arbitrary value from something that's art versus not art, so I don't know how this applies to price. My point is that HxS works are toys. As far as being naive, I've seen a number of first time collectors get their first HxS toy at the various Exhibitions I've attended. The sticker price was literally all it took. To your point, however, yes, it's a highly competitive arena with a limited supply available.

Hype - yes, agree. Hype and Brand are connected. A brand survives and thrives because of various phenomenon, including hype. Supporting the hype for successful brands is history, culture and quality. I didn't mean to imply I'm not affected by hype; of course I am. I've met Hirota several times now and he's sincere, genuine and caring. As well as very detail oriented - he knows his collectors and even those who may not yet have won lotteries. There's substance behind the hype, even if it's not something known here. One of my best friend's collects football cards, which have followed a similar progression morphing from kids stuff to expense collectibles now (that no kid could ever afford). Another close friend collects Hermes - the history of this brand is fascinating and driven by hype and quality too. Last year was Hermes' most profitable year. This year they're 30-40% ahead of last year. For better or worse, human nature is to consume, and then consume more. Especially intrinsic collectors, who are genetically different than non-collectors (I'm sure you all know what I mean here)

Thanks for the conversation. It's unexpected.

 

I agree with all of this, 1000%. It just seems there is a lot of "quantifying a person's validity" that goes on here. As an outsider, this is how I read it.

 

Collectors can love toys more than cars or watches, there's nothing rationale about collecting. We've all had family members scratch their heads at the toys we display and the costs associated.

All the other stuff is beyond me, and sincerely doesn't interest me. I won't begrudge your perspective about over-the-top collectors. I don't mind other collectors no matter how desperate or complacent. Prices are dictated by markets dictated by demand vs. supply. I'm alright with any company/brand/maker charging whatever price the market will bear, so we probably have fundamentally contrasting values.

 

does Hirota sculpt his own toys? I have very little HxS knowledge .

 

There is no hyperbole about the statement I made. Sure there was a $300 toy but there were toys there in the tens of thousands. Even a wealthy person should see a problem with that. But whatever floats your boat- but don’t say I was being hyperbolic about it.
Is there a part of me that is jealous at the financial means hirota fans seem to have? Sure. But I’d like to think that even if I had money I’d have more sense than those collectors trying to buy their way into a better spot in line.

What’s unexpected is that you talk of camaraderie and you’ve been a member of this message board for 5 years, and have just topped 10 posts. Or maybe it’s not unexpected. I know about building relationships through a shared hobby.

It’s time for me to leave this thread, it reflects everything I hate about this hobby and quite a few things I hate about humanity in general. You continue to have a good life. May your Hirota shelves grow and Instagram posts get the most likes. Amen.

 

You’ve bought a few during my collection sell-off and seem like a nice guy, but for every 1 ‘nice guy’ there are a whole shit-ton of nouveau riche, self-entitled, high-maintenance, sycophantic, needy assholes chasing the same stuff (I'm speaking from experience as someone selling NOT buying), and using words like 'immaculate, indescribable and pure enjoyment' sound like you've been drinking too much Kool-Aid.

Trust me when I tell you that these 'brothers in arms' would happily shiv you in the back for the opportunity to overpay for hot new dino dolly's.

 

If you think the HxS community is tight knit then you should check out Skullbrain.

People selling Buta at cost, hooking each other up with stuff behind the scenes at market price, getting to talk to great artists who will still be here posting when the gorilla robot market eventually takes a cool bath again.

I’ve never had to pay a thing, or call Paul Rich Joe Hello Roger etc teacher or sensei to get an education on the history of Sofvi.

I’m in a good place right now, I could have went top dollar on the one-offs (all of them). I can’t justify spending money that way, because it’s not sustainable. Also the idea of a closed door bid/or buying other things in hopes of getting what I’m really after rubs me the wrong way.

My buddy Nick (RIP) would have referred to the inner circle as custies.

That said, I enjoy the photos other people have spent 50k creating so keep pumping those out for free and we’re good.

 

PS I too have overspent on some toys from my favorite artist so hey it happens.

 

I was laid off last week, my wife last month. We both work in the NYC advertising industry. I’ve been a Madison Ave art director/creative director for 15 years. The idea that I’m supposed to do this for another 20 before I can retire scares the living shit out of me. All I can think about right now is what kind of investments I can be making so I don’t have to do this shit for another 20 years, but hell I don’t even think these jobs will be around in 20 years. Sure going to an exhibition and buying a 300 dollar toy is totally fine, it’s fun it’s a memory. I’ve done it many times and have no issue. Not just HxS but any toy that’s going to cost nearly a thousand or much much more via auction or retail I just can’t do it anymore. I’m too cognizant of old age and the lack of any guaranteed. In this world we could all be replaced by automation and AI and there is no guarantee anyone is watching out for us. If you aren’t looking 20 years down the road and terrified of the future, I really am envious.

 

If Hirota gets wind homeboii is buying second hand he’s going into the naughty list. Speaking from lots of folks exp. Lol

you might’ve screwed him over, Andy.

I have a few HxS toys and they are very nice toys and very well designed. It’s not the most amazing brand and its followers are a crowd of peckerheads to the point I stopped posting toy pics in my insta bc they would not let off. At this point others are making toys inspired in HxS derivative combo (obscure animation cell characters + complete supply chain control) so just a matter of time before another maker makes one robotic gorilla or nuclear reptile with the proportions right, like he does.

Iuno, just grab a fa ke on the low. They’re awesome and at least you can play them without thinking they’re depreciating every time you turn their heads

 

Mmm, strippers

 

The biotech company I have worked for since 2011 was bought by a multi-billion dollar competitor in 2019. We were a relatively small but highly respected and globally competitive, well-run company that had been going since 1968. When we got bought (for $1b), several friends who had been through company buyouts before warned me, "prepare for everything to get worse". And so it did. They basically ignored/rode roughshod over everything that made the company great/made us beloved by customers, while running us all fucking ragged trying to learn all of their buggy, depressing, staggeringly byzantine systems. It has been a painful and draining experience for just about everyone at every level of the company.

From the point of the buyout, they promised us "no layoffs". Obviously, the pandemic threw a huge curveball to all businesses, but biotech businesses actually thrived during it, as the equipment was in much-increased demand. We worked our fucking asses off for the new company during the pandemic, of course all while navigating the myriad personal issues and terrors brought on by the pandemic and the slo-mo disintegration of society. The promise of no layoffs was reiterated regularly, as recently as this past spring. We watched with unease as another small company they had bought (also for about $1b) shortly before ours got fucked up and eventually sold off by them.

Ffwd to two weeks ago... layoffs coming. 3% of global workforce, which conveniently amounts to just about the size of our division/formerly our company. Firm announcement/details to come some time this month, likely just before Thanksgiving. Everyone on edge. CEO releases series of vids talking about how "gut-wrenching" the decision was. (Oh jeez... so sorry for you, man.) Last year, this company did $6.85b in revenue. Never enough. It's just never goddamn enough for the fucking cannibal class. And it still works out for them in the long run if they completely shutter us... they put an annoyingly superb little competitor out of business, on their quest to become the WalMart or the Last Man Standing of their industry.

The AI revolution that will either kill us all or make work obsolete... as I look around I feel it can't come fast enough. Please.

Blaaargh. Tangential venting over. Thanks.

EDIT: Composing my screed, I forgot and would be remiss to not say: very sorry to hear of your layoff, @JoeMan. Wishing you the best in whatever's next, and that the period you're in now is not too rough.

 

When a scene is described as "toxic", this is the one bullet point that is pretty indefensible. I've seen the DMs where people who had to sell due to an expected emergency get ratted out to the artist because they are a "true" fan and this one is just a flipper who doesn't appreciate the art. That is some toxic behavior. Life happens and no one should be ex-communicated from their church for a string a bad luck.

I understand why people here are still of the sofubi punk DIY perspective as @hellopike mentioned. But does that mean artists should have a perpetual glass ceiling on their lives to be "true" to the "scene"? As I've gotten older I'm more absolutely disgusted with the modern day workplace. I can't fault anyone for doing whatever it is they do to avoid going back to this wage slave Hellscape, and if that means a brand I loved has priced me out, well that sucks for me but good for them, I suppose.

At a certain point it's quite literally impossible for an artist to not piss off a sizable proportion of their past/present/future customer base and if anyone thinks they have the "right" way to sell toys, they're just an asshole.

 

(turns around like Columbo) Actually, there's one more thing... just to be on-topic, and though I do not/never had a horse in the HxS game... while I agree very much with this sentiment:

... there is still something immensely off-putting in seeing an artist do a "private bids" pricing scheme. Even in this niche hobby where "exclusives" and "exclusivity" are attractors for all of us to some degree, this feels very classist and gross. In one way, it amounts to, you poors don't even need/deserve to know how much this shit goes for. Look, just name your fucking stupidly high price for your plastic dollies and own it. HS definitely has a firm/secure idea, by this point, of what his audience will bear and what kind of increases he can get away with from release to release.

(Kramer voice) "Uh... why don't you just tell me how much you'd like to pay?"

 

Gotta say, I am loving the increased discussions on SB!
@JoeMan , sorry to hear of your layoffs. Hoping for a good resolution soon.

 

I think you're a good guy too. We've experienced different realities is all.

I know what kool aid tastes like, I participated in peak bull nfts (and it was fun). This isn't that, respectfully. Sometimes it sounds like entitlement is on both sides of this equation. The guys I've met in real life (not just on forums or over IG dms, not to dismiss the value of digitial relationships) aren't what you describe. This forum seems to operate with broad brush strokes to suit its collective narrative. That's fine. Everything I've experienced is just counter to "self-entitled, high-maintenance, needy assholes"

 

It's awesome there's a home here for lots of collectors. Everyone should have that. Some exist under the HxS umbrella too. I've had drinks and dinners with HxS collectors from all over the world and it's also awesome and fun. Again, seems totally misaligned with common conception here.

Silent auction inspires a lot of vitriol - I wouldn't have guessed it. Hirota probably produced over 400 toys for sale at Stronger Than All, yet the sales method for 10 sets of one-offs is discussed most heavily. In fact, Hirota tries various sales methods and in his most recent post noted that this is the last time he'll use the current lottery sales method at Exhibition. Any sales method he uses will attract the ire of those unhappy with the current state of toys.

Inner circles exist with every maker and in almost every aspect of life (and on these boards). At one time or another, everyone is a custie, and everyone is on the outside too

 

nobody is selling buta at cost unless it's godman figs. what are you talking about?

 

[/QUOTE]

But does that mean artists should have a perpetual glass ceiling on their lives to be "true" to the "scene"? As I've gotten older I'm more absolutely disgusted with the modern day workplace. I can't fault anyone for doing whatever it is they do to avoid going back to this wage slave Hellscape, and if that means a brand I loved has priced me out, well that sucks for me but good for them, I suppose.

[/QUOTE]

Well we all should know by now, “talent's exclusive to bands (artists) without pay!”

 

Maybe you should check out the sales section?

Zindabad's sale just a couple days ago was close to OG pricing as you can get. When I say at cost, I mean at the price they paid plus shipping/fees. Flipping has never been a thing here.

 

so you're showing me over 1/3 godman figs in that pic, that has nothing to do w zindabads sale, for what..?
I look at the sales thread here all the time. I owe most of my buta collection to this place.

flipping has been very limited on sb, sure, but that has nothing to do w sales prices of old toys. selling a toy you bought 10yrs ago for the current market price is not flipping. you think anyone is throwing a fuckin vacuum lady up on sb for $100?

 

Well I paid roughly 100 bucks a piece for each figure Zinabads sale was all at 100 or less... I've missed way more than that.. The highest I've seen here for any buta so far was 200.

 

for what figs..?

also i'm just being a dickhead cause noone is selling butas at cost unless theyre less desirable.
didnt think it would turn into a back and forth.