Carrying this over from the Eyezon thread: This is a topic that comes up every time we do Toy of the Year over at Toybox DX and I'm always curious as to how people weigh in on it. My stance is, two criteria have to be met to call something a "Japanese Toy": 1) a Japanese company or a Japanese branch of an American company is producing the item (i.e. signing the purchase orders and the checks, I don't care where it's manufactured) 2) The toy is being marketed to Japanese people exclusively. NO GAIJIN. Dekaranger is out, then. I'd consider Soul of Chogokin is in, though, because those are really gray-market items only available in the states through Diamond. The fact that many companies like Gargamel, Real Head, etc. do so many exclusives with Super7 makes #2 difficult to fulfill, so I think for the toys that are usually discussed here you could probably ignore that one. (Enforcing #2 for Toybox DX's TOTY is just fine for me, though, because then it keeps out those damn Transformers. ;p)
well, for me, up until recent developments, a japanese toy was any i couldn't get at rotofugi, kid robot, strangeco, my plastic heart, etc seems like with rotofugi's toy karma show and now strangeco picking up maxtoys for distribution (even tho they aren't japanese) the western companies are starting to see kaiju as the next big thing, i think we're gonna see a lot more harder to get items in the past pop up at places like these. whether or not the smaller japanese companies are willing to sell out to the big western encrooachment remains to be seen. blobpus has certainly upped his numbers recently, which says he might be ready and willing, whether others will follow suit will surely come to light this year
Odds and ends: 1) I don't know if you'd call it "selling out," but many of the smaller Japanese operations are now selling large numbers of items to American outlets. 2) Mark Nagata on the idea of Max Toy Co as a "true" Japanese toy company, in his own words: http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?1,1 ... msg-162957 3) "Made in Japan" may not mean much to some American collectors but it is one of the driving forces behind the phenomenon in Japan. The idea that these are direct descendants of vintage Marusan and Bullmark toys, simply by virtue of being produced in their home country (and few things still are these days), is very powerful among many fans of these items.
id say a japanese toy is a toy the begins its existence in japan. where it is manufactured, marketed, etc, seems less relevant to me than where it originated. its the same as when people ask where youre from. although i live and work and do most everything that defines who i am in san francisco, california, i was born and raised in nebraska. therefore, i am from nebraska. my godzilla toys originated and were developed in japan, so they are japanese. my stomp toys originated and were developed in san francisco, so id consider them american. being made in japan versus made in china or anywhere else is a very significant discussion, but i dont think significant to where you would say a toy came from.
I think the word is used differently in the designer vinyl and vintage worlds. In the designer vinyl world "Japanese" is usually associated more with higher quality production. It also often indicates lower run numbers with more variations. Basically it means "made in Japan". Figures like the Skull Wing, Dragamel, and Magman will tie you up in knots if you try to apply any other definition. So basically there is designer vinyl and Japanese designer vinyl is just a subset.
Interesting topic. How about this: The Gargamel x Biskup or Bwana Spoons toys really aren't that different from Wonderwall's Kaiju for Grownups line. Both are designed by American artists and produced by Japanese companies, but I think most people around here accept the Gargamel toys as "Japanese" but call KFGUs "Western". The only difference I can see is quality/style and the way they're marketed.
Yeah, I think vintage is more clear-cut, because once upon a time, nearly all of Japan's toys were made in Japan. (Of course, then we'd have to define what "vintage" means, but I'll let someone else start that conversation up again. ;p)
I go with the origination of the toy as the source. So in the case of Godzilla, it's Japanese, even if Hasbro released it, with the exception of GINO, because well... GINO is American conceived and Toho didn't have much input. I don't put much weight if it was made in some other country. Hell, Gargamel can start outsourcing it to India, and I'll still view it as a Japanese toy. Man, reading Mark's later reply on the next page about his parents and the internment camps, finally going back to Japan...etc. put a tear in my eye. Guess he started pouring it out and didn't realize it.
What Josh says is about how I think about it. I'll give another example. My Mini Cooper is a German car. Yes, it was designed with the original British car in mind and manufactured under a British imprint in the same Oxford, England plant that built the old school Coopers, but it was designed and built by BMW. It is a German car. Where it was made or marketed makes no difference. That is not to say that it only depends on the nationality of the parent company, either. If BMW had not redesigned the entire car from the ground up and basically turned it into a BMW whose appearrance is a nod to the original car it's based on, it might still be considered British. Anyway, the more you get into outsourcing and collaborations between people and companies from different parts of the world, the trickier it gets to pigeonhole.
If Gargamel outsourced to India, I would no longer consider it a Japanese toy. I would imagine quality would suffer, and it would lose that mystique of being made in Japan.
BUT, at least you can call at any time of day or night to Gargamel regarding the quality and the call will be answered! "yes, I understand Mr Sky. I know how you feel. Have we told you about the figure protection service we offer? For only $4.95 a month, you will be protected.....yes, I know you are frustrated Mr. Sky....yes....yes, I understand....we also have a gold level service protection plan, and that is only $1 more...please don't yell at me Mr. Sky, I am only here to help...yes, I understand.....this protection service plan we offer...."
My opinion is that when the production of a toy will be outsourced it will loose its identy. Of course a Gargamel toy is still a Japanese toy til now but ten or 15 years later it will be just a Eastern Style Monster Toy. Long time before German Toys was famous all over the world, the quality the details and innovation makes them succesful and today? Another example are the Space Toys made in Japan, wich serious collector collects the made in china robots or tintoys. These are rules of globalisation and capitalism, demand and offer. Massproduction means made in China or maybe made in India. The roots of the Kaiju toys are japanese but already today I don't think that these are japanese toys. The most of Gargamel or other stuff is produced for the foreign market, created by japanese designers and artists and manufactured in china. So how you could say these are Japanese Toys? Do you believe that a Steiff Teddy or a Marklin Train is still now a German Toy? My opinion is that its just a toy wich was created long time before in Germany. I think the image or attidude of a "Japanese Toy collector" here is nonsens. If you like Gargamel thats fine, I like the Gargamel toys too but can live without the attidude of being a collector for real japanese kaiju style toys. ,
Yeah, pretty much IMO. To me, the sculpt, paint, quality, style, appearance, character, etc., are more important (at lease with regard to new or non-vintage vinyl) than who made it, where it was made... I collect what I like - it is very subjective. It is interesting, however, to learn the history of "Japanese" vinyl, however, and the stories behind who made what, where, and when.
I was reading that thread over at toyboxdx. I think its funny that some members there speak of Skullbrain with the same disdain as KR is spoken of here. Not funny in a "wow they're lame" but more of seeing the pecking order in Japanese toy collection circles. Also I didn't know that Gargamel wasnt made in Japan. Great Threads lately
I believe someone has the wrong information. Most Gargamel figures say "Made in Japan" on the figure, on the header, or both. The only one that I can think of off-hand that doesn't say (there may be others) is the Eriagun - just has the Gargamel "G" on the foot and Bwana's header doesn't say where it is made - but even so, I would astounded if Eriagun wasn't made in Japan too.
I think part of that is a knee-jerk avoidance of vinyl over there, which shouldn't be surprising because the foundation of the site is die-cast robot toys. There's also the fact that Skullbrain is a relatively new community, and some folks at Toybox see Skullbrain going through the same bouts of silliness and seriousness that they went through years ago and it amuses them. But hey, some people (Paul Kaiju, hypermook, vintagevinyl, etc.) have managed to exist in both worlds and the universe hasn't unraveled. I spend equal time here and there and I enjoy both for different things. I'm pretty sure that all of Gargamel's stuff is made in Japan. I agree, and regarding this one, I don't think that anyone is "right" or "wrong" about this issue due to so many shades of gray these days. Globalization has muddied the waters for us, but it's absolutely worth exploring.
