Large article from The New Yorker about the most high-profile person to defect from the church so far. Covers a wide range of details about the Church of Scientology's various misdeeds over the years, good read: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011 ... act_wright Question: has anyone here ever known someone who was involved with Scientology? There are potentially millions of people who read the books, maybe thousands that are actively part of the organization, but does anyone here have personal experience with them?
Apparently my father-in-law joined in his younger years (I heard the story from my wife, and it's been a while so the details are fuzzy). I believe it was before my wife was born, but it could have been when she was a young child. Anyway, after he came to realize what a sham it all was/is he tried to get out. Threats were made towards him and his family (living at his parents at the time), and eventually his father had to pay a large sum of money (tens of thousands?) to get them to leave them alone.
I used to work for a company that was owned by scientologist. They never tried to convert me but you definitely weren't moving up if you weren't taking any courses that the scientologist require to be a manager. The owners were very nice and I think the church looked down on the company because they didn't give enough money back to them. Which prompted, The company I worked for, to ended up moving to Clearwater florida which I here is a big Scientology area. They offered me a job and to pay for my move but decided to stick it out in LA.
My grandmother-in-law was one way back in the 70's before most people really knew anything about it. She stopped practicing because she had no more money. She also has borderline personality disorder, is a hoarder and has security camera's surrounding her house that she actually monitors personally almost all of the time.
Interesting read - thanks, Roger! I knew that they used a lot of strong-arm tactics, but wasn't aware of the physical abuse and kidnapping/detention. Also interesting to read the discrepancies between their account and official accounts of LRH's life. And reading Tommy Davis' rebuttals it sounds like he's not too bright...yet is very high up in the hierarchy.
There was a great interview done on NPR a few months ago : http://m.npr.org/story/133561256?url=/2 ... ct-checked
The Church of Scientology of Connecticut is around the corner from me. It used to be a Dianetics office but over the years it secretly turned into a Scientology place. At least once a year there is a big rally outside the building, with crowds of people carrying signs of protest. There's always one or two grim reapers in the group, with skull masks and black robes. I've got some pictures on an undeveloped roll of film, I just drive by, point and click. I'll need to get those pictures developed someday... I should pop in one afternoon and see if they will let me use the toilet. I'll wear my blood-caked smock. Personally, I prefer Dioretix, the science of fiction. Matter over mind.
The mind is matter. For my money all belief systems not founded on sound evidence are suspect. Why do scientologists get so much shit? Try to get out of being Amish! That shit is scary! Rumspringa my ass!
I found it interesting that children are indoctrinated and set-up to fail outside of the Scientology in the same way that they are in the Amish religion. I had never really thought about child Scientologists... But yeah, Monkey, I agree with you to a point. When you get down to it the only difference between Christianity and Scientology is that one was founded when we didn't know how to explain the natural order of things and the other was founded after we became more educated on how the world/universe works - so it's understandable that people might follow Christianity at the time it was created, but it's completely astonishing that Scientology got any sort of foothold. But really, at this point we as a species should know better than to believe in either one.
The New Yorker article mentions that Scientology is one of the few 20th century faiths to survive into the 21st. What other religions can claim that? Satanism? (and I don't know if that counts as a religion)
Why wouldn't Satanism count? Seems to have more similarities to other religions than Scientology. And was it a product of the 20th century? I had always assumed that it had come about earlier.
Yeah the anti-Scientology thing is RARELY about them believing weird crap, it's about the management. Honestly isn't that the problem with most religions? Who cares what they believe, I don't, we all believe something. Everything we think, even with science, is a leap of faith. Even our existence (what is it to exist, prove anythings real, etc). But that's another topic. Just like we should go after the Catholic church for pedo-priests and Muslim terrorist leaders we should go after the Scientologists leaders. A lot of what they do is all a web of legal work that totally financially and socially screws the members who might think of leaving. And for those who need help medically it harms them too if the treatment doesn't meet their standards. There's a lot of sad stories about lives they've ruined on a very legal level. They charge for you to be part of it and still get tax breaks for being a "Religion" that's messed up too. It's different from the TV Churches that ask followers for money, because in those instances you don't have to give and you won't be shunned. Plus, if you want to give, it can be as little as you want. With Scientology you HAVE to give. Then it's a fixed rate. They can mask it by saying it's for classes but it's still essentially to become a higher member (buying your way into "heaven" kind of.)
Yeah, the whole "pay as you go" thing is what really rubs me the wrong way - that should take it completely out of the realm of religion. What other religion requires you to pay to read its scriptures or attend its services? Personally, I think that no religion should operate tax-free. Any parish that brings in more than $X should be taxed. Then we could decrease the personal income tax. (But this is another topic too.)
Well, when I say Satanism, I mean what the Church of Satan practices, which is an atheistic philosophy. If a belief system doesn't include belief in supernatural elements (dieties and souls and so on) does it qualify as a religion? I really don't know. Browsing their site, I see that some of the essays refer to Satanism as a religion. So let's count that one. I can't imagine too many other ones that approach the size of those two religions. Aum Shinrikyo? Not too many of them any more. Hare Krishna?
Playing Devil's Advocate here (haw), many churches and temples ask you to pay some sort of fee to officially join the congregation, and others tithe something like 10% of peoples' salaries. On the Scientology end, if you want a copy of Dianetics, I'm pretty sure you can just ask them for one. Of course, you can't practice the faith yourself with other people just based on the book, they will sue you. Totally on board with this one...
Yeah, I'm not really up on my Satanism. Though I am interested in learning about what it is they believe/practice. From the very little that I've heard it's more of a humanistic religion, wherein you look out for your best interests. Do I remember COOP mentioning he was a Satanist, or was that a joke? Maybe he could shed some light on this...I don't particularly feel like googling "satanism" while at work! Right - but when it comes down to it, you'd be able to practice any other religion (as far as I'm aware) for free, and identify yourself as being a follower of such-and-such religion. They might be a bit irked if you don't tithe, but you won't be stone-walled.
How can they do that? That would be like Dawkins' suing you for taking God Delusion and turning his brand of atheism into a practicable religion (which you could argue is what's happened).
That's what I'm talking about. If you want to be "Chrisitian" or "Jewish" or "Muslim" you can be one of many types. Some more liberal some more conservative, same god overall. So if one charges and you don't feel cool with that move on to one that you don't have to. In the end, though, they'd rather have you as a follower and not pay them anything than lose your faith overall. It's a suggestion to give them money so they can keep the power running or their soup kitchen up or their homeless shelter cleaned. Generally speaking. Scientology there is 1 and only type. If you try to start your own sect or branch I'm sure you'd get the hell sued out of you and it'd be totally legal for them to do it. You can't just say "I agree with this but not that I'll join a different branch" because there's 1 branch and that's it. Other religions can guilt you, but Scientology can take everything you own and will own and what your kids own and do it legally. They really have a sick team of lawyers and contracts going on.
Based on my experience, there are more than a few people of faith who have the expectation that people aren't "true believers" unless they're putting their money where their mouth is with temple memberships, tithing, etc. Scientology "tech" as it's called is all based on copyrighted text and the organization keeps a tight fist on it. The New Yorker article mentions someone who has broken off from the organization and has been practicing the religion with others. They've been besieged with lawsuits ever since.
working my way through this article and it's a really great read. too bad haggis is a little conservative with his words, someone needs to blow the secrecy wide open.
