What happened to Rotocasted.com?

Wow really? You bought a toy and took the picture how is that picture you took NOT yours? Nothing about toy pics I take is quick either. Given your incessant bumping of your own toy store you've set up in sales I'm guessing there is a lot you don't get or understand.

 

I only bump when I add things, I figured you'd all want to know when new things were there and not miss them. Why is everyone on this board so touchy and bothered about virtually everything? I thought at first it was a gender thing, since so many more toy collectors are male, but I am on a lot of toy groups now, and it is only here that everyone seems so easily irked and offended. So it's not that. Honestly, though, I feel afraid to say things on this forum because people seem to jump on you when you do. From now on, I will try to keep mum and stay out of all of it.

My "store" is just an easier and fairer way for me to get rid of toys I no longer want (what you all do in sales) and I continue to not see any real difference in selling through bigcartel and taking paypal. I do not sell toys for more than I paid and take a loss on most of them, as I suspect we all do. I have helped a lot of people here get toys they wanted and I have never had a problem with anyone who bought something from me. They all seemed quite happy and grateful and many have helped me too. I'm not sure what I am doing that is so horribly wrong. Maybe it is different than you do it, but not a crime or an indication that I don't get or understand the forum.

I was not trying to argue. Only saying how I did not understand the impulse myself. I respect that you think differently than I.

 

I know what sarcasm is, thank you. Another great thing is courtesy and respect for differing viewpoints without going into immediate personal attack mode. Let's just be done with this. I wish I could delete the entire thread. I have made many friends here and learned quite a bit, so I'm hanging around skullbrain even without that thick skin.

 

As someone who used to be a photographer, not-very-professionally, I feel that there is one last nuance of the whole photo-use debate that can be run into the ground here:

In this particular case, if you photograph a work of art ("the toy") you have copyright of your image of the toy, but you are probably infringing the copyright of the toymakers' by posting your photo on a public site, especially if you somehow make revenue from it. So you can't really make much of a case about your 'generic' shot of someone else's intellectual property being misappropriated, because neither you nor the third person had the right to reproduce imagery of the toy. Then again, some of all this is effected by Fair Use.

In other words, I agree with Lixx morally, but I think legally it is very debatable. Lixx, your GF's photos are presumably of things that she has stage-managed and not of third-party products, so she has easily definable copyrights over them, which is a similar situation, but doesn't quite match the toy-photo thing you all are talking about.


Isn't copyright law just the coolest thing to talk about‽‽

 

That's an interesting point and a valid one when we are talking about art toys or any other art. That's kind of what I was thinking when I said I was taking a generic shot of something I did not not create and so did not feel any ownership rights to it.

I have a friend whose artwork has been stolen online and altered to fit into someone else's artwork and I can totally understand her fury over that. It just seems to me that simple pics of toys (someone else's creation) merely sitting on a shelf, with no other artistic manipulation, is not on the same level. If you snap a pic of a boxed toy or a pair of shoes or a lamp to sell on ebay, do you really feel that pic is worthy of copyright and do you need credit for it?

Just as a side note, if ever you sell on amazon and post a pic of your item for sale, it is no longer yours. People on the seller boards are always up in arms over this, but once you post that pic of your item, it becomes amazon's property and anyone else selling the identical item is permitted to use it (actually must use it, as amazon does not want multiple listings on a single item. They want one listing page, with all the seller offers on it together.)

 

Once I buy a toy I can do whatever I want with it. I own it. If I take a picture of it I own that as well.

Well congratulations n00bs! For seven years I've enjoyed posting pictures here but because I can no longer trust n00bs getting their grubby little mits on MY pictures and adding them too their wack databases without my permission I've made over 2000 toy pics (all of them) private. Now no one can see them. There will now be a big gaping blank spot on SB where all the pics I've contributed over the years are now missing. People can thank you guys for it and not having respect for my property. My pics aren't community property, I put a lot of work into taking pictures of them and I'm not going to have some dumb ass n00b try and tell me my composition means nothing, I don't really own the toy, and everyone can use them if they want. It's really not how it works- get a clue.

 

.....

 

Sorry for contributing, huge mistake on my part.

 

I legitimately take a lot of time and pride in my toy photos. It's my adult way of playing with 'em as a big kid, and I enjoy my mediocre photography. I'd be partially peeved that my images are being used on other sites without credit(but partially stoked to see someone liked it enough to share it). However, I'd be pissed if they were used and said to be taken by anyone other than myself(at which point I'd consider it stolen).

 

I've lost respect for a lot of people here after participating in this thread.

It's not about money. It's not about copyright. It's about manners and common courtesy. And if you don't understand that, I feel sorry for you.

 

^^
This.

 

^^^^
This one hundred times over!

Like I said before none of my pics are 'quick snaps' really. I may not be the best photographer in the world but in 7 years I've learned a ton about photography, depth of field, macro shots, the works. I think the only thing preventing me from going a more professional route is equipment & funds. So ultimately I think this toy hobby has had a positive side result which I'm very proud of. Those pictures mean a lot to me.

So when someone comes in saying they are just 'quick snaps', no composition, and they should be allowed to do whatever they want with them, frankly it's a major insult. Then there is the whole common courtesy thing that I'm really shocked certain members here aren't getting. I'm through explaining. Certain n00bs won't get it like they don't get most things here. I know copyright law and have a friend who's a paralegal in a NYC firm who does nothing but that all day long (along with international copyright). Don't test me. SB will have to do without my photo input.

 

I feel the same way about becoming an astronaut.

 

I think you are overreacting. I am not going around stealing your pics and I doubt others are making a big effort here to do that either. I thought we were just having a conversation about viewpoints on the topic. As I said, I totally respect that you feel differently than I and am not going to mess with your pics. (Is it not common courtesy to respect other viewpoints?)

Is is not possible to discuss a topic and express differing viewpoints without everyone getting riled up about it? I don't know why you felt a need to make all your pics private. I was not going after them before the topic started and I certainly won't touch them after. Nothing at all has changed except your state of mind.

 

I'm sorry to hear that you've taken down your photography, Lixx. I am an unabashed n00b, and there are still standards and expectations here that will take me time to understand, but I do respect the tremendous talent that have gone into most of the photos here. The great photography and passion is a large part of why I want to be a part of the community at Skullbrain, specifically. I would hope that before using a photo, if a person doesn't have a relationship with the original photographer, that permission would be asked for beforehand, or at least credit given.

I hope that this one negative experience doesn't drive many people to remove the images from which I derive inspiration and enjoyment.

 

This comic keeps coming to mind.

Just... Ask permission to use photos. Please.

 

If there is nothing creative being made (a representation or expansion over the initial concept) from a photograph that it is used without permission, then it is not a use of creative license. If it is for information purposes the site should then do its job in a professional manner and reach out to those it wants to document and not put the blame of copyright infringement on its users.

What is it so hard to understand about, "Its my photo, I took it, I own it and you have not asked for permission to use it"? these databases are not only poorly made, they are taking away any credibility from others that actually know how to catalogue things properly.



This is a bigger conversation than only this, its about privacy and limitations in regards to the use of material, not admitting to that is a problem of morals.


I said it in another thread already. The double standard going on here is appalling.

 

I've had peeps messaging me on Flickr telling me how much they like my pic but the watermark ruins it.

My brain translates that as, "Hey I like your pic of <inserttoyhere>! It just sucks I can't use it for my purposes because of that watermark you put right there and it's too hard to photoshop out."

This is why I watermark. It's a necessary evil.

 

"Ruins it" Some people need a lesson in subtlety...

But seriously, good on you for using watermarks. Perhaps that's a good solution for those who are feeling less inclined to share their photos after this thread.

 

Seriously? Have you had some other problems of this nature, or is this just in response to Rotocasted having some of your photos uploaded to it, plus this thread? Because, if you're getting pissed off at a general trend, then you have my sympathies and I hope that your stand on others using your photos without permission puts a throttle on the issue.

Looking back over this thread though, it is pretty obvious that many (possibly most) of us are talking about copyright issues. It seems like a few crucial people are talking about issues of common courtesy that are also linked to third-party photo-use.

That's why I made my sarcastic comment about copyright being fun to talk about... it evokes both subjects for most people, and quickly gets bogged down in emotion and terminology.

It's as easy as pie folks:

• When talking about manners; you ask before you can use someone else's work.
• When talking about copyright; shit gets messy!

If you want to get down to the root here though, when you're thinking about uploading an illustration of a toy to a database, why don't you just go and get the promo shots that the manufacturer initially put up on their site?! (Yeah, that doesn't apply to certain makers and the pre-2008 era in general.)

 

I understand Lixx rage. There's time and effort, money for equipment and ultimately much affection and pride involved in taking pics of things you love. It's not just Rotocasted. Plus defining this theft of intellectual property as a "general trend" makes it even worse. It's bordering on being acceptable which is not.

Just because it's a general trend it should never be a norm.

I agree on most of your points: It does not hurt to ask. Why not use the stock photos of toy companies because somebody got PAID to do those and indeed copyright issue is a messy subject so it's best to respect it by not messing around with someone else's pictures.

 

Thanks for digging up this thread to share your thoughts on our useless discussion.