Burning vintage questions

Discussion in 'Vintage Vinyl' started by akum6n, Jan 19, 2009.

  1. Alebrije

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    Hello friends, I have a question for older collectors, an apology if this is not the right thread for this question. From a time to here I have noticed that some of my vintage figures have an oily layer on the vinyl, especially my Bullmark Gojis it seems that they sweat oil, now I have noticed it in some of the Ninja Arashi villains especially in the leg area, Has anyone had a similar situation or noticed that some of their vintage figures do the same?
    At first I thought it was because of the heat in the summer and I chose to give them a shower with cold water with dish soap and they look normal for a while, but now that the weather is colder I have noticed that oil appears again especially in the Dark green Bullmark Gojis, the Heating grilles are about there meters from the showcases and the glass of the showcase does not feel hot or warm. My theory is that this can be cause it for strong temperature changes, but it is only a theory of mine, if someone could help me with more information I would greatly appreciate it.
     
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  2. doomboy

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    I think that the Plasticizers used in vinyl production inevitably migrate to the surface over the years.This can be accelerated by heat/pressure variation over time.
    Vintage toys are likely to have been exposed to various extreme atmospheres and environments over the years; so unless previous owners displayed them in a 'controlled' environment the chances are this is the first time these toys have been cared for in a forensic manner.
    The obvious advice of storing toys in a well ventilated ,relatively stable ambient temperature,away from sunlight ,seems to be the best way to slow degradation.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2019
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  3. Alebrije

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    Then you could say that it is almost inevitable that this will happen over time, even the change from one country to another with different degrees of humidity, heat and differences in the height of the city could accelerate this degradation. Did you think it would be advisable to give them a bath with a mild soap? Or is it better to leave them like that with the oil they sweat?
    Thank you for all the information!
     
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  4. doomboy

    doomboy Addicted

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    I would think that wiping away any residue would be the thing to do,the only risk being friction on any paint.
    Seeing as these toys started off their lives sealed into plastic bags in an occasionally tropical climate, I reckon any degradation has had a good kick start.
    Plasticizer migration is a factor in many commercial safety applcations ie moisture being generated by wire coatings or floor tiles.
     
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  5. Alebrije

    Alebrije Line of Credit

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    Do you think it would be appropriate to clean them with chlorine wipes? for the chlorine that the wipes contain. Or is water and soap only recommended?
     
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  6. Roger

    Roger Vintage

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    I would not use chlorine. The only cleaning I've done is with warm water, Ivory soap, and a soft toothbrush. I think using anything beyond that would risk interactions with the paint or plastic.
     
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  7. doomboy

    doomboy Addicted

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    I would avoid using chlorine,there probably enough in the water already.Use as mild a soap as possible and small lint free wipes like Nail technicians use.
     
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  8. Alebrije

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    @doomboy ,@Roger Thank you very much for all the information I really appreciate it.
    So is it something that will continue to happen? but it will not have negative consequences for the vininl? or after a long time will it degrade or affect the vinyl?
     
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  9. Roger

    Roger Vintage

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    It's hard to say. Consider that since the 1970s that it's been kept in hot attics, cold basements, humid temperatures, dry temperatures, etc. and the materials used back then were not as stable as what they use now. I would just do your best to keep it clean using conservative low-impact methods.
     
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  10. Alebrije

    Alebrije Line of Credit

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    I will take note of all your kind suggestions and be more careful when cleaning my vintage figures, I usually only use dish soap and warm water, but with toys that bring some form of mold I have used chlorine wipes until degreasers of I cook for pots, but I will try to use less abrasive things.
     
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  11. Roger

    Roger Vintage

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    Keep in mind that my cleaning methods and avoidance of complex chemicals has more to do with my personal paranoia that I'm going to wreck the toys. Please don't hold me up as an expert. ;p
     
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  12. Mr. Humphreys

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    Ugh! Sorry to hear this Roger. It's one of those "ohhhhh nooooo!" distressing surprises.
    I've been fairly lucky, in that none of my vintage has yet gone "sticky" or greasy. I had one custom painted toy that became sticky after a year that I received it. I think the person who painted it did not prep the surface properly.

    I've mentioned before that i've avoided chlorine based cleaners (they can cause color bleaching). The science of Chlorine vs. Oxygen bleaches (also know as OXI cleansers) is explained here:
    https://sciencing.com/oxygen-bleach-vs-chlorine-bleach-6571838.html

    WARNING! WARNING! WARNING!
    DO NOT Use this cleaning method on toys with METALLIC PAINT!
    *The metallic paint will be DAMAGED for sure, since it is very delicate, especially if vintage.

    Cleaning:
    My test using "Soft Scrub OXI Liquid Cleanser" in 2017, on a batch of vintage toys, have not showed any ill affects to date. I initially thought it caused a crack to a horn, but after scrutinizing the original auction photos (which I saved), I found the crack was already existing at the time of sale (i was just to dumb not to notice it :(). I used this product, and followed up with DAWN original blue dish washing soap to wash off the oxi bleach and neutralize the OXI scrub (be sure to do this!)
    Disclaimer: This was a personal test, I can't endorse this as an "official" or trouble-free method of cleaning ;)

    OXI Soft Scrub (this is NOT the same as Soft Scrub with Bleach <-- Avoid the bleach version!)
    [​IMG]

    Original version, Dawn (blue) dishwashing liquid
    [​IMG]

    I came across two different web pages that discusses vinyl toy stickiness / sweating:
    https://mikatan.goodsmile.info/en/2013/06/20/dealing-with-stickiness-on-figures/

    This one mentions using Goo Gone!
    http://tirofinale-news.blogspot.com/2017/05/cleaning-stickystained-figure.html

    p.s. I recently read on a toy blog, that if you are going to keep toys in their original baggies, make sure that there is a ventilation hole of some sort to prevent the toy from sweating. Also watch for bad reactions of the vinyl surface touching the bag and causing a chemical reaction. This is finally convincing me to unbag all of my Butas (some are over 10 years old), and just keep the bag, header card, and little staplers.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019
  13. Alebrije

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    @Mr. Humphreys Grace thakyou for the information links,I will have to give those sticky Gojis another bath, in fact fortunately only two of them are the stiky ones and both are the dark green, I don't know if the color of the vinyl has something to do with it or is it just a coincidence.
    That Dawn dishwashing its a classic, never use that OXI before but I´m going to try.
    Again thank you for all your advice guys! :thumbsup:
     
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  14. Mr. Humphreys

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    @Alebrije just one more thing! I would NOT use the OXI on metallic paint. Metallic paint is super sensitive, and if you scrub off the "metallic" particles, you might leave a dull dead surface behind (i.e. imagine if a metallic silver spray gets eaten away by the OXI, you get a dead bald gray/brown left behind! :x:x:x:x:x). The test I did on my vintages did not have metallic paint.
     
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  15. ultrakaiju

    ultrakaiju Die-Cast Staff Member

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    I concur with everything that has been said here, Roger. I am sure you also already checked out the discussion we have dedicated especially to cleaning vintage toys, but it may be helpful to some others coming here. Why certain toys seem to 'sweat' more than others is difficult to say. While I have noticed different ageing with respect to some lines of toys, e.g. Bullmark, I have not noticed single cases where I have had a figure display behaviour strongly different than the others. More often you see this with bootlegs or toys that have odd/different paintjobs (e.g. heavy metallic coatings). As I think I mentioned elsewhere, definitely let toys breathe as much as you can. This includes inside cabinets, i.e. opening occasionally, and exchanging any air inside, but especially for sealed toys. Usually you can sort of get away with this somewhat if it is a lightly stapled header, but anything fully sealed I would be wary of. In this same vein, surface residue on toys also should be wiped away when you notice it. I tend not to use any treatments on my vintage stuff, but have been aiming to test of the few recommendations we've discussed, but I do not think that any regular bathing of a toy with mild soap+water will cause any remotely deleterious effects at all.

    All of these effects will depend on the age of the toy, the environment it has been kept in, any exposure to other agents in its lifetime, and the surface paints and coating used. In the case of your Bullmark Gojis, I have experienced some of this tackiness like you mentioned, and it seems related to the ones with more of the green colouring to them, but that is based on a very small sample size.
     
  16. Alebrije

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    I believe that what @doomboy says about atmospheric pressure changes is correct the first time I noticed the shining Gojis was sitting in my chair admiring my vintage display case, that day in particular was a very hot day, it was one the hottest days in the year, then I noticed that the vinyl of two of the Gojis looked very shining, it seemed that some body had put ArmorAll in the vinyl, at that time I assumed that such heat had stared some reaction in the vinyl so I decided at that time to give them a bath and they look fine for several Months, but the last time I noticed that on the legs and the belly area they looked shining again and they felt oily to the touch, but this time the previous day was the most humid day of the year, so many of the things said by you make a lot of sense. @ultrakaiju Steve I will follow your advice and from time to time I will ventilate the figures in the showcases.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
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  17. deafmetal

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    @Alebrije - This is a very interesting topic. I could see the vinyl having more reactions if the temperature, humidity, and pressure in your area are changing by large amounts in a day or week. I live in a somewhat temperate climate with low humidity where it is rare for the temperature to change more than 20 degrees Fahrenheit within a single day, and I do not notice the issues you are describing across my collection. That said, I do have one specific toy in my collection that has been very oily/sweaty since the day I received it. After a cleaning, it will get oily again within a few months. I believe this is an issue with the vinyl itself and not so much the environment. I actually experience a different issue with some Bullmark gojis that Steve was alluding to -- the ones with green paint tend to get very sticky/tacky, but I believe this is due to the quality of the green paint/sealant that they were using at the time. It sounds like you are getting more of an oily/shiny residue though rather than sticky/tar?
     
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  18. Alebrije

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    I have noticed it in my two dark green Gojis Bullmark and yes, it is rather an oily layer on the body than a sticky substance or tar type. That is why in one of my previous posts I mentioned if it would be a coincidence that the two Bullmark dark green figures had the same problem, then I could infer that perhaps some of the products that were used for the dark green vinyl pigmentation are reacting over time, we also must to consider that these toys were not manufactured thinking that they would last decades and then there would be some crazy people like us who wanted to keep them for more years.
     
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  19. XVivaHateX

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    Just wanted to share this. I had this sticky residue issue with my giant-size Cobraman kamen rider villain. Been that way for a long time. I have all the villains on an open air shelf. Its never too cold or hot/humid. Interestingly I dont have this issue with any of my toys that are in display cases (most of my collection).
    I just tried the hot water and blue Dawn trick Grace recommended. It totally removed all the stickiness with no ill effects. Next im going to try on a marusan king godzilla that has the same problem. Thanks for the suggestion!
     
  20. Mr. Humphreys

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    Thank you for reporting your results! At least we know it works :D. Hoping that more people will add to their toy display and storage conditions vs. stickiness, and what cleaning method you are using. This will definitely help vintage collectors :). Another question I am wondering about is, if the same toy gets re-stickied, and you use the same treatment, does the period of time between treatments decrease, increase, or remains somewhat consistent (time wise)

    p.s. you mentioned that your open-air "dwellers" seem to get sticky, while your pampered "indoor dwellers" have perfect complexions. I wonder if the combination of dust and humidity/dryness/repeat, is more likely to set off a reaction and cause the plasticizer to me more amenable to go bonkers, resulting in stickiness. Kahotan's blog, stresses keeping your toys out of the sun, as the heat (and possibly UV effects) causes the plasticizer content to volatilize/vaporize faster). Thank you for this observation! I was going to store some figure on top of my cases, but now I'll stick them all inside! :razz:;)

    p.p.s. I really wish Chris was around to give us him input. He stored a lot of his toys on top of his cases as well. Such an amazing mix of toys too!
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
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  21. Alebrije

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    I think it's a good idea @Mr. Humphreys Grace, I'm going to try to document what happens to my oily figures, I'm going to make a logbook with the date I cleaned each figure with this problem and how long it looks well until it became oily again, what I use to clean it and when the oil comes out again how the weather was the previous days.
    I would also have liked to hear Chris's opinion, he was one of my greatest influences as a collector, especially vintage figures.
     
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  22. zindabad

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    Don't mean to drag down the quality of discussion with a basic question, but I wasn't sure where else to ask. I saw this little wind-up pachi a couple of months ago in a facebook group, where the owner was asking for help identifying it. Not my photo, obviously.

    [​IMG]

    Somebody suggested Yonezawa, but I'm unsure. The confirmed Yonezawa wind-ups I have seen have all been sparkers, with a metal winding key and different box style. Although it's totally possible that the key on this one was replaced. Any ideas?
     
  23. akum6n

    akum6n Vintage

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    @zindabad If you look at the lower right hand corner of the box, there is a manufacturer's mark with a T inside a circle. Yonezawa has a different logo. I don't think we were able to confirm the manufacturer the last time these toys were brought up.

    Re: the question of cleaning sticky vinyls and the cause of said secretions, one consideration is that the current condition of the vinyls is the result of all of their 'life experiences.' These toys are closing in on 50 years of age. The time we have spent with these toys is probably a fraction of their total existence, so keeping them on open or closed shelves may have less effect on their condition than, say, the 20 years spent in a box in an attic without temperature control. Whether or not the vinyl 'sweats' may be due to the cumulative effect of these storage conditions, versus anything we have done.

    That said, like @Roger, I am also very paranoid about the use of cleaning chemicals on toys, and use only diluted dish soap and a soft toothbrush. I think it's possible that chemical reactions with these cleaners may not occur immediately, and so something that seems fine to use on the toys may have some negative effect that only shows up years later. I don't have any specialized knowledge of chemistry or plastics, so this is mostly my speculation.
     
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  24. akum6n

    akum6n Vintage

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    B-Club/Popy question: which of the Bullmark repros from the early 2000s were based on unused vintage molds?

    I remember reading something about this in Super7 magazine, but I was never sure which figures used the vintage molds and which, if any, were new sculpts by B-Club/Popy in the style of Bullmark.

    Hoping someone remembers this info.
     
  25. Roger

    Roger Vintage

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    For the unused vintage molds, are you talking about the ones in the hardcover Bullmark Story Book from Ultraman Ace? I don't have the book in front of me but I think there were a half dozen of them, including the slug kaiju, the cactus kaiju, and the octopus one that looked like the Colorforms alien.

    There were a couple of new vintage-style sculpts that B-Club did, off the top of my head there was Aron from Magma Taishi, a Heisei Godzilla and that giant sized Kanegon.

    Was that what you were looking for?
     

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