Grody Shogun - New Stuff

Discussion in 'Japan Toys' started by FaustX2, Jul 2, 2011.

  1. The Moog

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    So, any creature with thick lips and wide nostrils is black face and therefore instantly racist? Not sure about that ...
     
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  2. gatiio

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    I thought it was some lost mold Luke found and repurposed to be a grody mashup.

    Kinda ‘meh’ as a sculpt, hope there’s more to the story than a nod to some 80s culture. It’s also not the most original take, but to each their own. This hobby is large enough that there’s space for all of us. I kinda wish more input. It’s a forgettable toy that’s for sure.


    To some, yes. We in the US have had to put up with shit like this for a long time for looking anything but aryan. From jokes at school to blatant racist imagery to death. It is just there and we have to call it out to hear at least what is it about.
    So it is there, especially at this point in time and kind of a bummer the maker has no background on this or that there isn’t a more meaty explanation to it.
    We don’t know if it’s a monkey or some effed blackface inside joke.

    you do have to admit the similarities are there to the minstrels and black face.

    let’s not forget that this whole systemic racism thing is not inherently obvious when we’re not the ones receiving its constant downgrade. So yeah, for example I get offended easily by Mexican jokes, cliches, etc. Bc I’ve had to live a life dealing with Americans and their bs about it. I collect toys, not triggers. That’s why I love the monster/fantasy dollies.

    if we can debate the nature of the swastica and why it’s a shit motif to even try to use, black face and minstrels and this toy shouldn’t be too far from that convo either
     
  3. xSuicide Squadx

    xSuicide Squadx Super Deformed

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    I think @gatiio made some extremely well put points. Particularly about how quick plenty here are quick to shit on swastikas being used on toys, even if Japanese makers use the original Buddhist symbol. Do the features reminiscent of blackface immediately mean they are as such and it’s inherently racist? Not necessarily. But it’s not a stretch, and shouldn’t be treated like one, if someone correlates the two off of historically exaggerated and similar features. At the very least it could be questioned and asked about, and I see no fault in that. I talked briefly with another board member, and we both agree that we believe there’s no malicious intent, but it would be nice to have it expanded on a bit by who conceived it. The last comment I made to someone that asked me about it was “I think it loosely resembles blackface, but isn’t inherently. I guess you can say it’s innocently done in poor taste, and obviously raises eyebrows. I wouldn’t have put this out, but I also won’t hold it against people that don’t see it.”

    The more I look at it I’m almost certain I’ve seen an illustrated logo that looks very similar to this. I can’t at all seem to recall where, or from what, but I do remember the big teeth smile and a mustache. Might’ve been yellow, too.
     
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  4. ungawa222

    ungawa222 Mini Boss

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    I think part of the issue is that it's anthropomorphized... it's on a bipedal, human-ish (as Grody goes) body. If this head had been on a monkey body, I may not have made the association. And no, it's certainly not that any character with thick lips and a wide nose is instantly racist. It's that the sculptural forms here, the expression, and the fact that it's a monkey head atop a basically human body all call to mind the tropes of hundreds of racist black caricatures I've seen over the course of a life here in America (you don't have to go out of your way to find the stuff... and I grew up in the North).

    All I can say is, for painted versions, if the plan is to keep it on this body, best be real careful how it gets painted.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2020
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  5. EtR_Wolf

    EtR_Wolf Comment King

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  6. gatiio

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    ah, thanks for the link. Sounds like a teenagers DnD character backstory. Lol. Any more angst and we’d have an emo revival here (which is not what the 80s/90s hip hop references get to). This thing is all over the place.

    It doesn’t even match up to the sculpt, but it certainly helps to have some juicy backstory.

    I stand by my initial comments still. Good for him to get his toy made. It’s not cheap or easy so there’s that


     
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  7. The Moog

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    Would Luke / Lulubell (who as far as i know, are good people) release a toy that they know would make people think of black face and racist imagery? I see no positive spin on that for their business whatsoever - so i'm guessing they don't see what some of you peeps are seeing ...
     
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  8. ungawa222

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    Agree. I don't think for a second there is any malicious/ill intent here, on anyone's part. Somewhat ill-conceived/ill-advised? Maybe. But at the same time, intentional or not, the sculpt is setting off strong graphic associations for a certain number of people, myself included. And I don't think it's indicative of "oversensitivity". I think it's graphic-historical fluency, only partially heightened by living in a time when our culture has been brought closer than ever to a real reckoning of its malignant racism, in all its manifestations.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2020
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  9. The Moog

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    Sure, while i only saw a cartoon simian type creature, i showed the photo of it to the lads at work (who have no interest in toys) and they thought it looked 'well racist'.
     
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  10. Anti Social Andy

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    Does "well (anything)" translate into 'merican?
     
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  11. The Moog

    The Moog Die-Cast

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    Mega racist?
     
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  12. vinyl.zealot

    vinyl.zealot Fresh Meat

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    It translates for a few of us. I actually say it quite a bit along with other famous phrases such as “bollocks” or “take the piss” or “well on” but then again, I’m probably considered a “prat” by most English. Whatever...anyone up for Nandos?
     
  13. Urk

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    Im partial to the Australian use of "cunt"
     
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  14. JMRampage

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    Vanity Vinyl strikes again! Are we back in 2012???...

    edit: at least Obama was President then...
     
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  15. The Moog

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    The British version is also perfectly serviceable. Like Butcher said in 'The Boys' ...

    "Its a term of endearment where I come from, love."
     
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  16. Brooklyn_Vinyl

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    I don't believe for a minute that Luke or Lulu would intentionally release a toy that they thought would present racist imagery. Amy has posted her support for BLM multiple time on her personal IG account. I think it's good to have the conversation and acknowledge that this image evokes a racist archetype for some of us. I definitely am not accusing the artists or distributors of anything nefarious. Sadly, I think some of these images are so engrained in American culture that we sometimes don't see them as such. I struggle with people who are overly PC so I understand your comment @The Moog but I don't think that just ANY image with thick lips and wide nostrils is blackface. I think @ungawa222 is correct in saying that there are things associated with this toy that anthropomorphizes it and makes it lean more in that direction. The Koningu on the other hand is clearly an ape on an ape's body. If the same head was on a human body it might raise an eyebrow for some. Context matters. There's a version of the En-Man who always looked to me like it has blackface on, unfortunately I couldn't dig up the image. No other version of that figure made me think of that and I even own a couple in different colorways.
    I think it's important for us to have the conversation and I would encourage artists and distributors to consider these things when they make their decisions. Times are changing (I hope) and I think it's good to take a moment to consider these things.
     
  17. EtR_Wolf

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    In reading through the blog description again, I don't see where it mentions that it's based off of a human either?? Just 80's graffiti and 90's hip hop art.
    I know there have been cartoon monkey caricatures in graffiti and hip hop art back then, so maybe it actually is supposed to be a monkey monster creature? And possibly to not spend even more money trying to create a body to go along with it (molds cost a lot), they used the grody bodies instead since it is supposed to be some monster like creature that devours souls, and grody bodies are monster bodies?

    Now, this doesn't negate the fact that this sculpt is bringing up these mixed feelings amongst us, especially since the head is put on a body without a tail to show that it is actually a monkey.

    I wish they would have posted a little more detail and maybe some photos of the graffiti and art that inspired the toy. Maybe it would add some needed clarification.
     
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  18. ungawa222

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    ^Many good points, and this brings up for me Awesome Toy's Electric Ape, one of my favorite toys from the last 5 or so years. Fell in love with the first version soon as I saw it, ordered one. Only after getting it in hand did a small voice in my head say, "Hhhmm... is this racist? Could it be reasonably construed as such by someone who is not me/not into toys/black?" Here was another toy that featured a simian head on a(n even more fully realized) human body shape. However, though it was a necessary and productive short conversation I had with myself, in the case of EA I came down easily/squarely on "not racist". Two reasons, mainly: the head sculpt is anatomically a gorilla, very cleanly and clearly. It's a realistic sculpt with no slippery half-human forms at play, as there would typically be in a racist caricature employing the simian trope. Second, there's nothing that could really be construed as derogatory in any aspect of its facial expression, its pose, its "costume". The overall effect the toy communicates is one of futuristic stoicism/courage/valor. This is all to say that context, clarity and nuance matter. Take Awesome Toy's exquisitely sculpted gorilla portrait and imagine throwing it on a character body dressed in "urban" attire, for example, and you can fast see where we'd have a problem.

    I'm not trying to shit on Rich's creation here, or yuck anyone's yums who might dig it. As others have said, he got his toy made, which takes a lot of time, effort and cash. My opinion is just that, however unintentionally, it's closely evocative of some bad racist art of yore that epitomizes American racism... and so I think he/Lulu should proceed carefully with it, in terms of marketing/paint apps/bodies it gets put on.
     
  19. Rich

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    It looks like a take on the Delicious Vinyl and Nervous / Wreck record mascot images. Which would also make sense with the hip hop and graffiti tie in from 90s hip hop.
     
  20. gatiio

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    That nervous wreck logo is soooo good. Good reference.

    also, “vanity vinyl” @JMRampage perfect term. Wish we could all do it too.

    Either way, hard pass for me on this toy and really appreciative of the conversation around it here.
     
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  21. Ghost Attack

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    I'm also actually pleased with how this conversation is going/went here. I saw the toy on IG and had a pretty visceral reaction—though I definitely don't think it was intentional, this toy is definitely at least in a liminally racist zone.
     
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  22. C E

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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  23. C E

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    Excited for this Real Grody mash open order! Dates don't seem to be set in stone but in a live stream (video up on his IG) Luke said probably around May 5th in conjunction with Mandarake's 4th Indy Sofubi Rally, with a week-long ordering window for the painted 'Executioner' (rough sample bellow) and another two-three weeks for blanks (last pic in previous post).
    [​IMG]
     
  24. Urk

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    I love it!
     
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  25. nicholasfung

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    Exciting. I definitely like the cloth accessories, hope they're included.
     
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