Taken from Mother Jones blog: Will a Record Black Turnout Doom Proposition 8? Uh oh. For all the joy some feel at the notion of legions of hitherto apolitical blacks energized to get out and vote for Obama, here's a wrinkle they might not have considered. Having gotten out to vote for their boy, will they also vote for homophobia and pass Prop. 8? One black lesbian activist has her fingers crossed they won't, as does an LA Times op-ed. But I'm not so sure. Remember Ohio in 2004? That's when black voters remained immune to the siren call of black hyper-religious/socially conservative GOP candidates but, since they were already in the booth, also helped kill gay marriage rights. See that op-ed for an argument that blacks are not the leading purveyors of homophobia in America (something I thought true and will now have to investigate). A recent PEW study showing across the board declines in opposition to gay marriage backs them up. According to PEW, Black opposition decreased by 6 percent: In 2004, 24 percent supported gay marriage while 56 percent opposed it. In 2008, the numbers are 26 percent and 56 percent. The study doesn't account for Hispanic (or Asian) opinion, a factor which will definitely matter with California's Proposition 8. Also, hopefully, the wording of the Prop will make black knees jerk: By invoking rights, the ballot’s wording on Proposition 8—the title reads "Eliminates Right of Same-sex Couples to Marry"—could turn off black voters. Proposition supporters sought a different heading, "Limit on Marriage," but a judge dismissed their case last week. Big Brother never tires of newspeak, does he? I hadn't thought to worry about this before, but as (some) blacks make the argument that an Obama win is a win for equality, here's hoping they'll give a thought to equality for all. We're not big on 'eliminating rights.' http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/archives/2008/10/10593_prop-8-black-voters.html
With some reservations, as I explained earlier in this thread, I voted NO on Prop 8. Let's see if it shakes out overnight. Only 70 percent of the vote is in as I type this. Good luck everyone.
This is definitely passing. I am very sad and speechless....in a campaign that calls for "hope and change", I was naive to think it would apply to ME also! TV and media is spewing how MONUMENTAL it is that a black candidate is the next president considering all the fights for equal rights that took place in our country, all the while remaining two faced and not calling people on their support of homophobia. African Americans and others celebrate the country's "monumental" achievement in history and race relations; while the gay community stands shocked and still voiceless, stunned by the hypocrisy. Maybe I'm over reacting, but my future is at stake, so I'm a little bitter.
anyways... if you want to see how California voted, this is a pretty good illustration. pretty interesting to mess around with the filters http://www.latimes.com/news/local/polit ... .htmlstory
that filter is overwhelming with the prop 8 results! apparently, some are not trying to "officially" count prop 8 as passed, because there are still 4 million absentee ballots and late votes to count, but the chances it will be enough to change the majority are probably slim and none.
What comes next? Historically judiciaries have had final say on civil rights matters as opposed to the popular vote. Avoidance of "the tyranny of the majority" and all that. Should 8 eventually be struck down on any number of principles of constitutionality, there will no doubt be the usual screams of "activist judges!" from those in favor of exclusionary amendments and anti-gay discrimination. Despite 8's passage, attitudes about legal same-sex marriage, if polls can be trusted, have already changed dramatically in just the past eight years, in favor of legalization. Given a few more years, more time for people to hash this out publicly and privately, I suspect that this general trend will continue. On the other hand, biases and misconceptions about homosexuality will continue. The issues raised in the article that backtrack linked to may be "touchy" but they need to be hashed out frankly. A forthright dialogue between African American and Latino leadership and the gay communities is overdue. More sunshine needs to be brought upon the influence of the massive funding in favor of "defense of marriage" legislation by churches, especially the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and the Roman Catholic church, both of which are said to have poured millions in to pro-8 advocacy. There's also the fact of massive influence from outside of California in favor of 8, which stands in contrast to the general theme of "this is an individual state's issue" usually promulgated by the same sorts of groups and individuals who supported 8. While marriage equality advocacy now faces a steeper uphill battle than before this election, I think the eventual outcome of the ongoing battle will touch upon a lot more than just the immediate issue. It already has. This is a process, not the end of the road.
What hits me more than surprise, is the embarrassment I felt coming into work this morning. Working in a creative industry, I work with closely with a lot of gay dudes, many of which I am pretty decent friends with. Sporting my shiny new wedding ring (they were more excited for me to get married than I was), I get to look them in the face knowing the rest of us let them down, big time. If/when Prop 8 passes, equality gets thrown out of the window. But, yes, the people of the State of California have spoken and it appears more folks are against it than for it, so be it. This goes well beyond what the Bible claims marriage means. It's about equality. We care more about Standards for Confining Farm Animals than we do for some of our human counterparts, and I find this tragic.
i find needing a proposition to require standards for farm animals tragic. if we can't treat animals with respect, how do you expect humans to treat other humans with respect?
I've always believed the government should stay out of ALL marriages and just provide civil unions for everyone... then the churches can be left their individual spiritual understandings of what marriage means... kind of like the Catholic church has issues with marrying previously divorced people while most Protestants don't. Some church traditions see same-sex marriage as going against their spiritual understanding but many others don't... I think that's a win-win for everyone.
Dean, I agree with everything you've said... On this particular issue, I hear the ACLU is already filing lawsuits. Whether it will do any good, we will have to see. I doubt it will, but I also doubt this is the end of the road or final say. On the other hand, this set back the marriage movement (which honestly has national/federal goals at mind) years and years. What I find most ironic is that minorities that had to fight for their rights, crap all over the people below them. They have their "moral" basis, just like southerners had their "scientific" and social benefit basis for segregation. My head about exploded when Obama dropped the "gays" who helped vote to elect him; yeah Obama thanks for getting their backs! I'm sure they appreciate it, oh....wait....nevermind. oops
There is reason for hope amid the sadness...8 years ago Proposition 22 passed with 61%, while Proposition 8 passed with only 52%. At least things are changing. There is a California rule that propositions that fundamentally change the constitution must also be passed by the legislature. A suit has already been brought on the grounds that removing a group's rights falls under this category. The suit was brought before the Supreme Court before the election, but they declined to rule on it while saying that they would be open to considering it should the proposition pass. So this is not entirely settled... See http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... 13UM63.DTL I do want to thank everyone here for all the support leading up to this!
there's a huge protest about to start outside my work... san vincente is shut down so the traffic is gonna suck.
Although I supported no on 8 more then anything else I am happy about it being so close. The hate that church group advocate is less then it once was. What would the result have been 10 or 20 years past? I think in 4 to 10 years gay marriage in california will be a done deal with many other states gaining ground. We are moving forward and the next generation will have less hang ups then the past one. Cheers to the future and equality for all! As an afterthought: If Christians think they own the rights to what marriage means then they need to get it copyrighted.
While this defeat is disheartening, I also feel that its only a matter of time before gay marriage is legal in CA. The rest of the country will take longer to adjust. Prop8 failed, but the issue isn't going away. There are more openly gay high school students in America than ever before. So in 15 years when those highschoolers are in their thirties, the US will evolve and become a much gayer land.
I find it interesting that people are only concetrating on this prop. Do some research into what else passed elsewhere on Nov. 4, and welcome the new second class citizens.
Some analysis: http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20081106/u ... california This part was interesting to me:
The reasons I originally brought up Prop 8 were (1) I live in California and (2) I have no idea if there are any skullbrainers in Florida or Arizona. I figured that if there were, they would pipe up.
I understand the living in CA, I watched CA more closely having lived there also, however its a country wide problem this election, along with the adoption ban in Arkansas.
