LOST Season 6 Talk *Spoilers*

Discussion in 'Whatever' started by Hank, Mar 21, 2009.

  1. pickleloaf

    pickleloaf Super Deformed

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    LOST Season 6 Talk *Spoilers*
    what would have made me happy is not being hit with a heavy handed fist in the last 15 minutes

    for the rest of the show, we have been presented with individuals struggling in the context of an interesting and very foreign world. the struggles often had science and faith at odds and sometimes approaching harmony

    by the end none of the island stuff mattered. it was entertaining, sure, but to have the ending independent almost entirely of the island is a slap in the face to anyone invested in the island. the finale went for the cheap pop by making people who care about the characters cry, but they were then out of the island context... the context we knew them in.
     
  2. ---NT---

    ---NT--- Prototype

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    I can sorta see what you're saying about the ending being independent from the island and being disappointed in that. However, the island lives on. Jacob did his job by finding a replacement. Jack did his job by STOPPING the destruction of the island. Hurley and Ben did their jobs for who knows how long by protecting the island. The island is a constant, so it woulda been clunky to "complete" the story of the island. People will continue to try to find the island and gain from its resources for all eternity, and someone will be charged with protecting the island from these people and from any future iterations of the MIB. This cycle will continue until the protector fails, and if/when that person fails it sounds like the world will come to an end.
    It would have been interesting if the sideways world was created by the island - but that's what most people were thinking so this ending was sort of a curveball.
    I was thinking that the ending set-up Eloise as a Charon-type character. Charon was the boatman on the river Styx who ferried souls to Hades. It seemed to me that Eloise was fully cognizant of the grand picture both in the living world and in the sideways purgatory world. And I was assuming that the church they gathered in at the end was the same church they went to where she explained how to get back to the island. She was also concerned about Desmond taking her son away - awakening him so that he could cross-over. As long as he didn't awaken they could spend time together on the shores of the Styx.
     
  3. pickleloaf

    pickleloaf Super Deformed

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    LOST Season 6 Talk *Spoilers*
    SPOILER ALERT ABOUT THE MOVIE A.I.







    i was reminded about the movie a.i. as i watched this in a way. if a.i. ended with the robot kid staring off through his window at the blue fairy, it would have been near perfect. but we get this silly add-on at the end where he is dug up by aliens and then gets to see his mom again.









    SPOILER OVER
     
  4. straightoutta..LOKASH

    straightoutta..LOKASH Side Dealer

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    LOST Season 6 Talk *Spoilers*
    Pickle- I see what you mean about not getting closure on the character of "the Island" like we did with most of the other characters. I would love for the series to continue as maybe a spinoff and show short one episode stories involving the island through time and the different people that show up there.
     
  5. pickleloaf

    pickleloaf Super Deformed

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    i think i wanted less "happy ending" and more ties to the myth of the experience as a whole... be it happy or sad or very ambiguous
     
  6. Kevlo9

    Kevlo9 Super Deformed

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    There was talk of a movie (earlier in the series run) that would be made after the final season. I haven't heard anything about that in a few years and I hope that it doesn't happen.
     
  7. Materialist Zen

    Materialist Zen Toy Prince

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    LOST Season 6 Talk *Spoilers*
    I would support more LOST.

    Now that I've softened a little, I can say the LOST finale was way better than the one for Neon Genesis Evangelion.
     
  8. Biff

    Biff S7 Royalty

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    LOST Season 6 Talk *Spoilers*
    Orange goo...
     
  9. Gareth Infinity

    Gareth Infinity Addicted

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    LOST Season 6 Talk *Spoilers*
    I'm gonna keep this very short because this isn't really the thread for it so anyone who wants to talk about it can PM me (because I could go on for hours), but yes, the TV ending of NGE was horrible, but I HAVE to ask, have you seen the movie ending?
     
  10. Biff

    Biff S7 Royalty

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    LOST Season 6 Talk *Spoilers*
    Orange goo too....
     
  11. Dean

    Dean Prototype

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    LOST Season 6 Talk *Spoilers*
    I got another spoiler for ya. Those weren't aliens. They were advanced mecha.
     
  12. ---NT---

    ---NT--- Prototype

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    :lol:
     
  13. bannedindc

    bannedindc S7 Royalty

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    LOST Season 6 Talk *Spoilers*
    I'm really shocked how many of you were confused by the last episode.
    Maybe someone of you guys should rewatch the part where Christian explains the side reality.

    the side reality was the only part that was purgatory. everything else still stands as is.
     
  14. kidclam

    kidclam Mini Boss

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    LOST Season 6 Talk *Spoilers*
    Lost Finale

    From one of the writers:

    First …
    The Island:
    It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people’s heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a “Protector”. Jacob wasn’t the first, Hurley won’t be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him — even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.

    Thus began Jacob’s plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn’t do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn’t take a more active role, then his plan would never work.

    Enter Dharma — which I’m not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by “corrupting” Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben’s “off-island” activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the “Others” killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that’s what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn’t do for himself.

    Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB’s corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That’s a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still … Dharma’s purpose is not “pointless” or even vague. Hell, it’s pretty blantent.

    Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his “candidates” (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of “candidates” through the decades and letting them “choose” which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn’t. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector — I know that’s how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won’t answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.

    In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he’d always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we’ll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on …

    Now…

    Sideways World:
    Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least — because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer’s room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we’re all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it’s not exactly the best word). But these people we’re linked to are with us duing “the most important moments of our lives” as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It’s loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.

    The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this “sideways” world where they exist in purgatory until they are “awakened” and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show’s concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own “Sideways” purgatory with their “soulmates” throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That’s a beautiful notion. Even if you aren’t religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.

    It’s a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events — not JUST because of Jacob. But because that’s what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith — and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.

    How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that’s THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.

    But the writer’s took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways “purgatory” with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn’t allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died — some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley’s case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are “awakened” and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.

    They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren’t in the chuch — basically everyone who wasn’t in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here’s where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It’s possible that those links aren’t people from the island but from their other life (Anna’s parnter, the guy she shot — Roussou’s husband, etc etc).

    A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn’t go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can’t move on yet because he hasn’t connected with the people he needs to. It’s going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley’s number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It’s really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.

    But, from a more “behind the scenes” note: the reason Ben’s not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn’t believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It’s pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church — but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church … and then that was it. I loved that.

    For those that wonder — the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ’s ending. And they kept it.

    For me the ending of this show means a lot. Not only because I worked on it, but because as a writer it inspired me in a way the medium had never done before. I’ve been inspired to write by great films. Maybe too many to count. And there have been amazing TV shows that I’ve loved (X-Files, 24, Sopranos, countless 1/2 hour shows). But none did what LOST did for me. None showed me that you could take huge risks (writing a show about faith for network TV) and stick to your creative guns and STILL please the audience. I learned a lot from the show as a writer. I learned even more from being around the incredible writers, producers, PAs, interns and everyone else who slaved on the show for 6 years.

    In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don’t touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story — even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding. –
     
  15. wizeguy

    wizeguy Side Dealer

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    LOST Season 6 Talk *Spoilers*
    nevermind... found it
     
  16. Roger

    Roger Vintage

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    LOST Season 6 Talk *Spoilers*
    Bingo! I'm glad that I wasn't the only one that saw this.

    As for Lost, it seems like Battlestar Galactica all over again. The writers realized they wrote themselves into a hole with the twists and turns in the island mythology they had to create in order to keep the show going, so they relied instead on creating resolutions to the characters' lives to quell the audience. "Here's some pretty people kissing, are you happy?"

    It did remind me of Evangelion, too. And the revised ending(s) from the Eva movies are bullshit.

    (Keep in mind this is the opinion of someone who never watched Lost until Sunday.)
     
  17. Kevlo9

    Kevlo9 Super Deformed

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    LOST Season 6 Talk *Spoilers*
    If that is real...the writer needs to learn how to spell. :lol:
     
  18. Dean

    Dean Prototype

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    I was also reminded of Battlestar's rushed resolutions and elegiac closing note, which isn't as much of a criticism as it might sound. The death of Jack felt truly sad to me despite its inevitability and the fact that it gave Jack's character the purpose that he always sensed was there. There's nothing more poignant than a bittersweet goodbye. Emotionally, I think the finale struck exactly the right notes. It was interesting that almost all of the music in the final episode was of a soothing, reconciliatory sort ... much less of the pump-pump-doom-around-the-corner music that had permeated almost every other episode.

    From the moment that Jack was revealed as candidate number 23 I was certain that he'd be "the one," however I don't think we really needed that nudge-wink clue to have figured it out. He was always the closest thing to a protagonist that the show had, despite the fact that he was often distant from the current story lines.

    I didn't mind the final sequence in the church. As others have said both Jack's father's comments and the multi-denominational stained glass indicated that the Christian mythos isn't the only filter through which to understand the series' morality tales.

    LOST was a fun ride, a great vehicle for writers that provided countless excellent scenes of good acting and taut drama. Like a lot of viewers I didn't like how the MYST-like mythology came to dominate at times, but now that it's all over, I'm left with a very positive feeling about the show as a great accomplishment. The producers were right to bring it to an end rather than to let it spin on endlessly.
     
  19. kidclam

    kidclam Mini Boss

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    LOST Season 6 Talk *Spoilers*
    Maybe I need to see the last episode again, but when Jack died and saw a plane pass, I didn't think it was another crashing, like a loop. I thought it was the plane that flew off..and Jack was happy that they escaped since he smiled.
     
  20. pickleloaf

    pickleloaf Super Deformed

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    LOST Season 6 Talk *Spoilers*
    yes thats what it was
     
  21. wizeguy

    wizeguy Side Dealer

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    Another nice little write up that brings the entire story of LOST together...


    It seems some people are having a hard time abiding by Lost's final message: Let go and move on.

    And by "some people," I mean not only diehard fans—like, ahem, moi—but also casual viewers and people who tuned in for the very first time on Sunday night to see what Lost was all about. (Bat-poop crazy, but yes, they really did!)

    I'm still getting bombarded by questions about the Lost finale, so if you, or any of your non-Lost-worshipping friends are still struggling to comprehend, here is a stripped-down guide to what Lost is all about (according to this here idiot)...

    There is an island. It really exists, and the people on it do too.

    At the heart of this island is a "Light."

    This Light is the good place you go to after you die where you get to reconnect with your loved ones in the afterlife. You can call it heaven, Nirvana, or whatever you like. It's the most beautiful place you will ever see.

    If the Light on the island goes out, you don't get to be with your loved ones when you die. They simply "cease to exist." And that is a very bad thing.

    The Light on the island is so beautiful and powerful, that men will always try to get at it, study it and harness it--including most recently, a group of scientists called the Dharma Initiative who inhabited the island for many decades. They could never fully understand the island because they were men of science, not men of faith.

    To make sure the Light isn't destroyed by men like these, the island needs a Protector. (The Egyptians tried to build a giant Protector statue on the island, but it was reduced to a four-toed foot when a giant slave ship called the Black Rock hit it.)

    ABC/MARIO PEREZ The first Protector we met, Jacob, was sweet but a total dumbass who did exactly what his mother told him not to, and threw his brother Samuel (also called the Man in Black) into the Light. Samuel faced a fate "worse than death" (as his mother foretold), and became what Lost fans call "the Smoke Monster." If this evil entity were to leave or destroy the island, all the evil would escape out into the world, and the Light/heaven would be no more.

    Jacob needed to make sure that he had a successor, to prevent this from ever happening. There were no pure souls or babies on the island (because of electromagnetic fallout from the "incident" in 1977 that caused fertility issues). So Jacob selected "candidates" away from the island, went out into the world to meet them, touched them (so the Monster couldn't kill them), and then brought them to the island by way of plane crash. (The Protector can also change the weather, sometimes subconciously, to make stuff like that happen--which is probably why the Dharma initiative also studied weather there--but Jacob didn't do so in this case.)

    Jack Shepard was on that plane that came to the island. Oceanic 815. So were a lot of other really cool people who happened to look like TV stars: Sawyer, Kate, Sun, Jin, Sayid and Hurley. They crashed on the island, and they were alive.

    They were Jacob's "candidates." It was their destiny to come to the island.

    It was Jack's destiny to kill the Smoke Monster and save the island. And he spent six seasons trying to figure it out.

    In the meantime, the Smoke Monster was running around terrorizing/killing everyone, taking the form of dead people (he can do that) and manipulating a longtime island dweller, Ben, into doing his bidding. The Monster ultimately tricked Ben into killing Locke (a "candidate") and Jacob. The Monster took the form of Locke.

    And the island needed a new Protector.

    ABC/Mario Perez In the final season, we saw what appeared to be an alternate reality in which the passengers of Oceanic 815—including Jack Shepard—landed safely in Los Angeles, as if the plane had never crashed on the island. They basically spent the entire sixth season in this place trying to "let go" of their life's biggest regrets/issues. (Ben's guilt over killing his daughter Alex, Locke's crippling problems with his father, Jin and Sun's guilt over abandoning their daughter and not knowing if she's OK, Hurley's guilt over his money doing evil things, Sayid's desire to save Shannon/Nadia, Claire's guilt over planning to give away her baby, Jack's desire to forgive his father and break the cycle by becoming a good father himself, etc...)

    In the finale, we learned that this place (in which the flight landed safely) was a passageway from death into the Light/heaven. The characters we saw there had all died in different times in different places, and they met up in this place (where time is irrelevant) to work out their remaining regrets, reconnect with their loved ones, and move on to the Light together.

    After Jack sacrificed himself to save the island, they all crossed over to the Light and lived blissfully ever after.

    They lived together. And they did not die alone.



    Read more: http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/watch_w ... z0p6Q9xreS
     
  22. kidclam

    kidclam Mini Boss

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    LOST Season 6 Talk *Spoilers*
  23. Lixx

    Lixx Mr. Grumpy™

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    LOST Season 6 Talk *Spoilers*
    I really though the Sayid alternate ending was hysterical. "Jeff f*cking Probst!!!"
     
  24. hellopike

    hellopike S7 Royalty

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    LOST Season 6 Talk *Spoilers*
    everybody see this? How lost *really* ended:

    [​IMG]
     
  25. pickleloaf

    pickleloaf Super Deformed

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    YES!
     

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