On Member Berries and A Culture of Nostalgia

Discussion in 'Whatever' started by gatiio, Nov 3, 2016.

  1. gatiio

    gatiio Post Pimp

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    On Member Berries and A Culture of Nostalgia
    The current conversation over in the MAWANKA thread sparked my interest to pose this to the forum in a more general thread rather than just make it look like Im bashing Mishka... Again.

    Between the current political climate, The cubs winning the world series, ready-to-wear fashion that does nothing more than recycling motifs, etc. I find myself thinking that the irony and cynicism taking hold of things is a lot more detrimental to any discourse that could take place. I am not a cynic about it, but rather someone that feels there can be more to be said and done than just accepting our media, our outlets of entertainment and our engagement of the world as static. I find we are to entrenched in nostalgia and the current trauma the country is in allows for this retreat. That is fine, what we need to do is find a way to make use of it to create contemporary identities that are inclusive of all and not just a refinished version of something we have already seen.

    TL;DR An Example: TV such as Family Guy (repetitive, circular and ironic) does a lot less than something like Rick & Morty (genuine, sensible and profound) were we should be looking forward to creating our contemporary world and not continuing to rely on the garbage we have been fed before.

    What do you guys think? We are collectors and we are a community, should we be doing more to break out of the cycle?
     
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  2. bunnyboy

    bunnyboy Side Dealer

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    I'm not sure that there can be done anything about this world slowly going insane... The nostalgia for nostalgia seems just as much a symptom of a malfunctioning society which isn't capable of adapting as it seems to be at least part of the cause. I'm really at a loss these days.
     
  3. infiniteneeya

    infiniteneeya Fresh Meat

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    My perspective - nostalgia is just a temporary trend like any other, it'll cycle out eventually. We were in the 80's and now we're gradually cycling through different aspects of the 90's and early 2000's, so it'll hit a brick wall eventually.

    Also, I just glanced through the Mishka thread, and I have long failed to see the allure of this brand - quirk is ok, by all means, I love me some quirk, my closet is a pile of weird, but the quality of the clothing (which is terrible, I've felt the materials, kind of bottom of the barrel, with poor cuts) and the continued dullness of the designs is irksome. The new branch out label is equally dull in design, though I can't speak about the materials as of yet. Unfortunately it's not too far off base from the popularity of norm-core right now. It's taking over Japanese street fashion and has definitely made its way overseas. I remember seeing some scary GAP ads by Harajuku station back in 2014 and cringing because it felt like that push towards 90's norm-core was incoming and it was and I hate it hah

    There isn't too much that the audience can do - designers of toys (and clothing) can push towards altering old ground (which is a lot of design at this point) and cut free the usually media-bound themes that have been so popular over the last few years, for starters. I understand why they broke into it, some nostalgia is great, but we really got flooded with it. It's a big risk to create a starkly new design with zero attachment to beloved vintage concepts right now, because that breaks the current mold.

    Sorry guys, a lot of my perspective is from the fashion end, since I have a bevy of hobbies but that one is and always will be on top. There is no better way, imo, to judge the current status of trends, then to observe what develops in street fashion, because it speaks volumes of where we are in terms of mood and culture. Things have been pretty weird over the last 5 years - this is the first time I can recall when EVERYTHING is acceptable. There really is not a whole lot that is totally off-trend or off limits right now, and that's pretty unusual. I think we've been overwhelmed and now we don't know what to do hah. I saw street fashion designers commenting beginning in late 2014/early 2015 that they had seen trends in Japanese street fashion moving towards that re-use/vintage/90s blend-in style, and it was freaking some people out hah, but I think it ends up being a natural transition when things stay so crazy for so long. It's like the calm before a new storm.

    TLDR, this too shall pass (eventually), I think most have about had their fill of the nostalgia-driven trends and the repetition.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2016
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  4. gatiio

    gatiio Post Pimp

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    Great point, Infiniteeya.

    Yeah, but while normcore exploited (shortly) the whitewashing of the 90s. Now fashion (real fashion) is moving towards bringing the inside outside (lace and lingerie as outwear pieces) or drapping or pattern exploration. Im trying to make sense of it as well, I guess.

    I understand the cycle of things, but usually new things emerge and thats the space I want the conversation to take place. How much new content is being made that is ingenious and new and not a rehashing of the old.
     
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  5. MoonspellxRites

    MoonspellxRites Addicted

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    i agree that everything is nostalgia heavy right now, from personal experience i have seen friends bands use old anime designs and they always sell out versus logo shirts etc.
    now on that same page, i work in an industry where i rely heavily on people respecting classic styles. but i always try to push people to come up with new designs that can be executed in the classic stylings because they are proven to be timeless.

    as far as clothing i have to say that, being born in 1990, i didnt start making any fashion choices til 2000-2001 really and there are things that exist now that didnt exist before and im kinda into that.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2016
  6. Patrickg2k

    Patrickg2k Addicted

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    As a species, we're lazier now more than ever before. Using the past as inspiration to create new and interesting things requires far more effort than simply creating derivative works. As a result of nostalgia, the latter gets a lot more attention anyway but that doesn't mean there's not fresh art and design out there. It just means we have to sift through loads of lazy bootleg art toys and Robocop snapbacks to actually see it all...
     
  7. Anti Social Andy

    Anti Social Andy Die-Cast

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    Nostalgia ain't what it used to be!
     
  8. xSuicide Squadx

    xSuicide Squadx Super Deformed

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    I'm personally more a fan of feeling nostalgia through original art and works, than seeing it exist in a literal rip. One of the more recent things I've seen and have grown increasingly sick of, is, hardcore bands using older bands' logos and fonts with their names in it, i.e. White Zombie, Hatebreed, Darkthrone, etc. rips. I also hate this random influx of taking artists like Drake, Morrissey and Taylor Swift, and making bootleg metal and hardcore shirts out of them.

    I certainly have to agree with Patrick in that we're insanely lazy in knowing that banking off of familiarity is way easier to sell than pushing something new and original. Hell, there was a few years where bands had huge, bold letters with "BAND 'FUCKING' NAME" printed in foil on their shirts. Lots, and lots, and lots of bands. I'm not overly familiar with street brands, so I unfortunately don't have much of an opinion in that regard, but I'd like to think, given other opinions here, that it's somewhat universal.

    So, again, for me, I'd much rather see something new and fresh that invokes the feeling of nostalgia. Something that turns me on to what I love, while giving me something *new* to appreciate. I'm not even sure if anything I've said is relevant to the actual subject. I just ramble.
     
  9. Anti Social Andy

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    Me too . . . although Taylor Swift rocks my socks!
     
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  10. Waterbear

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    In the last 15 years everything has become so easily accessible. When I was younger and I wanted to remember the name of a song or tv show or movie I'd have to ask everyone I knew and hope someone remembered. Now everything is one google or youtube click away. Which is great and awful all at the same time.

    As far as "streetwear" is concerned I don't really care. I still find better stuff at thrift stores than anywhere else. I do find it endlessly amusing that people will pay seemingly ridiculous amounts of money for really poor quality though. If a t-shirt with a rehashed graphic on it is priced at 150 bucks you should at least be able to wash it a couple of times before the logo peels off and the black material turns ash grey.
     
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  11. MoonspellxRites

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    old band rips were cool for a hot second and then it got old FAST. and the pop artist/metal-hardcore bootlegs just grind my gears.
    there are so many good artists out there that would work perfectly for a band shirt.
    that being said, cold worlds done some of the best rips imo. kamen rider/evangelion/gundam/cocteau twins are all bangers.
    i still wont pay over $50 for a t shirt.
     
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  12. hellointerloper

    hellointerloper S7 Royalty

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    I think the most I ever paid for a T-shirt has been $30. AND it was the softest, most comfortable band tee I ever wore.

    Anyway, I think the current state of the world is what is causing this massive influx of nostalgia. It's an escape to times we perceived as "better," but it really is stifling creativity and progression. It's like looking through a kaleidoscope in a grey, dead world, why bother bringing color and life back when you can just continue to look through the nifty tube?

    Unfortunately I don't think we as individuals have much power to change this. A lot of these problems stem from war, the government, this damn election, people bickering with each other over every social issue... Things just seem to have really gone down the tube lately.
     
  13. infiniteneeya

    infiniteneeya Fresh Meat

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    Oh lord the underwear as outwear thing hah - I swear that has been kicking around for so many years, it just took VS, a well known mainstream brand, making a big deal out of it to really get the public to notice and garner some attention for their brand. It has been around for so long but no one noticed until VS decided to kick the tires, since their brand has slowly been creeping toward the grave, gotta stoke that fire hah

    I agree on that feeling of nostalgia vs. very literal nostalgia. Sometimes it's hard to separate those two though. It can be hard to kind of draw the line between nostalgia for the sake of popularity/money, and nostalgia because an artist just loves the material so much and can do a lot with it, especially recently, since it's so popular it's easy to fall into that rabbit hole. Nostalgia is fun! In the right doses hah

    A good example of that is MilkBoy - those who appreciate MILKBoy toys may be familiar with their clothing lines (I didn't even know about toys like this until I encountered MilkBoy's donut zombie toys, that was my gateway) and they do some really fun stuff with nostalgic media. Last year's Gremlins throwback was amazing - they had a full Mogwai jacket and hat (you bet your buns I bought them hah), completely furry, along with some fun shirts and hoodies. They are currently running with E.T. for this season, another line of pieces with a nostalgic-laced film. That kind of throwback I don't believe is just repetitive re-hashing of themes (IMO), as they are using a nostalgic source to dream up some pretty wild new clothing designs and accessories. It was also the anniversary of the movie last year so TONS of people used Gremlins in their lines. But it was one and done, they chose a theme, they did something crazy, then they put it to rest. But even then, that's just my own opinion - some would find this to be just another brand pooping out nostalgia for money.

    I swear to god if I see another "fashionable" rehashing of a vintage style sweatshirt it will be too damn soon. Just looking at norm core makes me feel diiiiiiirty

    I strongly hesitate to comment on toys because I know there are creators on this site - there are quite a few recent pieces I love that are wholly unique and there are some that feel pretty repetitive. I just don't buy them if they feel repetitive, and honestly it's kind of nice to see something new and unique sparingly and have the ability to be more selective hah - what would we do if everything was brand spanking new and awesome, we'd all be dirt poor lol
     
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  14. JoeMan

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    It's the internet. This is the best time in human history, with probably the least amount of conflict and danger, but the internet leads you to believe the world is going to hell, and everybody sucks. It's always been this way, even worse. You just weren't so hyper aware.

    I truthfully think if you are subjective, the toys from the much beloved era of say 2005-2008 sucked much more than many of the toys being made today. All the makers toys looked pretty similar, they all sculpted in that super smooth untextured manner and painted pretty similarly. They were just riffing on nostalgia too, cereal mascots, TMNT, vintage kaiju or header art, whatever. But like I said, there wasn't overexposure on the internet that made us so aware they were so similar, or unoriginal.

    Same shit, different year.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2016
  15. xSuicide Squadx

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    That's actually a really great point. I didn't even have any contention with the toys, more so in the subject in general. But being I wasn't into toys, Western or Eastern, until 2009 or so, I couldn't have formulated much of an opinion. But I think the exposure, dare I say overexposure, really is the catalyst to becoming jaded with a lot of stuff around us.

    Oddly enough, I watched a standup today that pointed out the exact sentiment you did, Joe, about today being the greatest times in a the world.
     
  16. akum6n

    akum6n Vintage

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    All I know is that 90% of the new stuff does nothing for me. Maybe the sculpting is more technically proficient, but it still feels ugly, soulless and boring.
     
  17. GhostTrainGray

    GhostTrainGray Toy Prince

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    Nostalgia isn't anything new. It just seems new right now. Who cares what other people are thinking about, anyway? Do your thing and have a good time.
     
  18. Waterbear

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    Do you think it's all about the toys themselves or maybe most people get a little jaded or cynical after being around the hobby/community for a long time? I'm asking because I'm honestly curious and interested in your answer so please don't take it as anything else. No negativity intended at all. I've been asking myself the same question for awhile and I don't know what the answer if yet.
     
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  19. hellointerloper

    hellointerloper S7 Royalty

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    I get the feeling that a lot of people just want to make sofubi, to be honest. They see what's popular, and make something semi-similar or sculpt their take on it. At least it feels that way, especially with the influx of 2-headed giant toys. That was mostly left to Bemon earlier (as far as modern sofubi goes) and now everyone is throwing their version into the ring. That, and NNN-style toys. We've seen Blood Guts Toys, Target Earth's weird Andy Warhol and Dump Golem, the Youzha (sp?)... Probably more that I can't think of right now.

    Whether or not that has to do with nostalgia or just stagnant creativity is a mystery to me. At the end of the day though, I would love to see people taking a risk and putting what THEY love out there, rather than what they think the market will love. I mean, look at Luke from Grody Shogun. I can't say I'm a huge fan of his work, but he makes things without really giving a damn about what people think. Peanut is just one odd dude, I mean, what is it? Why is it's nose so big? It's some kind of rodent thing, but what? Who the hell knows, but from the popularity of the one-off shows at Lulubell, people don't seem to mind.
     
  20. bunnyboy

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    I'm sorry, but that's bollocks. Do you follow the news at all? Are you aware of the upcoming election in your home country, the war in Syria and its consequences on Europe, the situation in Turkey, Britain leaving the EU, not to mention all the environmental and climate issues? "Best time in human history" my ass.

    Of course there's always been a nostalgic frame of reference, otherwise none of these toys would have appealed to any of us in the first place. Pachi Kaiju mostly draws from this frame of reference because it aims to generate nostalgic appeal, unlike the - in one's own perception - "original" stuff (which may already have been "inspired by sth" or flat out derivative) that one had as a kid. Trend cycles and people getting tired of "overexposure" to the same shit being regurgitated over and over again weren't invented by the Internet. Why would anyone even start thinking about "creating" the 42nd Ooze-It/Madballs/whatever tribute in the first place when you actually can check the fucking internet and realize that 41 people have done it already? Apparently because people love that shit enough to still buy it.

    We as toy collectors aka niche nerds are obviously prone to nostalgia (and probably for many of the same reasons and factors that are responsible for an overwhelming number of people on this board having some kind of punk/HC background), and since most of us probably wouldn't describe themselves as "high-functioning, fully integrated into society", by implication the mainstreaming of nostalgia doesn't bode well for society.



    tl;dr: WE ARE DOOMED! DOOOOOOOMED..!!!
     
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  21. akum6n

    akum6n Vintage

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    It's probably both. I think part of the love that I have for the 'old stuff' has to do with my memories of the collecting community and excitement in discovering these toys. That said, I honestly believe that, if today's crop of JP vinyl were being sold back then, I still wouldn't have much interest in them. A lot of them just seem over-sculpted or straight-out gross. I don't want a rotting baby zombie toy on my shelf.
     
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  22. Anti Social Andy

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    It's too easy for glory-seeking western wannabe's to get shit made now.

    Unfortunately that easy access means any clueless asshat with zero creativity or conceptual thought can get involved . . . ergo all the rinse and repeat 'phoned-in' crap being produced these days.
     
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  23. Michael Beverage

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    If you don't appreciate nostalgia in this hobby, you don't understand a crucial part of it. It's like being a rock fan with no appreciation of blues. All of the most talented and successful makers have huge respect and love for vintage designs, old movie monsters, etc., evident in their work. This hobby would cease to exist as we know it, and/or be complete garbage without a strong element of nostalgia in my opinion.

    Saying you prefer neo kaiju over vintage because it's "moving forward" or whatever is just kind of a silly statement. Like what you like ( I collect more neo kaiju than vintage as well) but no need to qualify it with statements like that, it just comes off as elitist.

    Coming out with new and fresh ideas while paying homage to the roots of kaiju is possible, and done tastefully and well on occasion.
     
  24. Waterbear

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    I can see that. I've done freelance sculpting for several years. I actually turn down roughly 20 projects for every 1 that I say yes too. It's not uncommon for someone who is a big fan of vinyl toys to simply show me a popular toy and say they want something as similar to that as possible without being an exact copy. Or to ask for two popular existing pieces to be mixed together in one way or another. Generally those are the projects I turn down. It's interesting because they are often very genuine fans with amazing collections or people frustrated by their inability to buy a specific sculpt that they decide they can make a version of it for roughly the same price they would pay on ebay for the toy they want.

    Personally my favorite new toys are things that don't remind me of anything else.
     
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  25. Waterbear

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    That makes sense. I don't get that incredible sense of discovery or amazement very often these days. Maybe two or three times a year give or take. A few years ago when I joined this place I was in awe for months just reading through old threads and learning about things I missed and the history behind things I recognized. There was so much emphasis put on why someone made something. The idea behind it and the inspiration too. I don't really see that anymore. The why kind of vanished.
     

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