World War 3.

Discussion in 'Whatever' started by Roger, Feb 23, 2022.

  1. Roger

    Roger Prototype

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    World War 3.
    Damn you, Pooty-Poot.

    My only regret is that I never got around to minting my collection of 93,000 Sour Lemon NFTs. Oh well. At least I'm not worrying about coronavirus any more.

     
  2. Geobukgan

    Geobukgan Toy Prince

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    World War 3.
    How many people are woefully looking at their Putin dollies right now?
     
  3. Roger

    Roger Prototype

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    World War 3.
  4. Brooklyn_Vinyl

    Brooklyn_Vinyl Comment King

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    World War 3.
  5. Roger

    Roger Prototype

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    World War 3.
    I've always appreciated Skullbrain's robust search function.
     
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  6. Roger

    Roger Prototype

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    World War 3.
    [​IMG]
     
  7. hellointerloper

    hellointerloper S7 Royalty

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    World War 3.
    Someone installed Fallout: Real Life and I am not prepared
     
  8. The Moog

    The Moog Die-Cast

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    World War 3.
    I freely admit to normally living under a rock and ignoring world politics, but this shit is fucked up. I hope everyone who bought a Putin doll melts it down like a crayon on a radiator. I'd be ashamed to have one on my shelf.
     
  9. Anti Social Andy

    Anti Social Andy Die-Cast

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    World War 3.
    Just taking this discourse up a notch . . .

    I'm kinda interested how this is all really being perceived in the US?

    Having seen the pictures of Kiev and interviews with its citizens . . . this could be anywhere in the western world, and these people are regular people who up until last week led regular lives.

    Unlike most previous conflicts within my lifetime (Ireland being the exception), this one feeling a little closer to home, and the fact that all we can seemingly do is spectate isn't real confidence inspiring.

    No idea what coverage the US is receiving, if it's as extensive or feels as 'real' as it seems over here, or whether it's just perceived as a distant rumble because it's on a different continent and no one is really too worried about the consequences ie. a punchy Putin don't stop at UA and carries on westward using the threat of nuclear action or even pushes the button just for shits and giggles!

    Just curious.
     
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  10. HBCoffin

    HBCoffin Addicted

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    World War 3.
    It's been dominating headlines in the U.S. over most everything else, though I'm not certain how concerned the average American is. I'm sure thoughts and opinions are all over the place. Messaging has been fairly convoluted. Political parties are taking it as an opportunity to accuse the other side for being partly to blame, while far-right wing media and our ex-president are basically defending Putin for his actions—their voices are that of the minority, but still, it is alarming as they have a strong influence on a lot of conservatives in our country.
     
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  11. The Moog

    The Moog Die-Cast

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    World War 3.
    Yeah, my brother was just talking about that. For a long time the UK hasn't been bothered or interested in Russia and what they've been doing. We just take their money and look the other way, or make half-arsed protests. But when they start encroaching on our backyard we suddenly give a shit ... :D
     
  12. Roger

    Roger Prototype

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    World War 3.
    I hear you on all points, Andy.

    As far as Americans' attitude towards this, I can only speak for my friends and family that I'm in touch with regularly, and everyone I know is heartbroken for the Ukranian people and concerned about the prospect of this shifting to a larger and hotter conflict. Most of the folks in this group are in our 40s and 50s so we remember what the 1980s were like, growing up with the looming specter of nuclear war.

    I run an ESL discussion group and I have a relatively new student who came here from Ukraine several years ago. I haven't been pressing him on things but the other students have been curious, so they've been asking him about how concerned he is. As recently as Monday night, he was saying that Putin was full of shit, he was just making a lot of noise and wasn't going to actually do anything He said that his friends and family in Ukraine felt the same way. I realize this is just one Ukranian talking, but I know how long the Russians have been meddling in their media and politics. It's no surprise that people there really believed this would never happen.

    A lot of Americans on social media are asking "what can we do?" The sentiment is nice, but I feel like this isn't exactly a situation where you can donate blood or clothing or money to provide immediate assistance to people in need. The important things that needed to be done were the things that would have made this scenario less likely. Our last president spent a lot of time doing the opposite of this, hollowing out our State Department, pulling us out of the Open Skies treaty, and doing his best to pull us out of NATO.

    On the national stage this past week, Republicans and their useful idiots were saying some awful and baffling things, but at least a couple of them seem to have backtracked a bit. Tulsi Gabbard has gone from "this is Biden's fault, and fuck Ukraine anyway because it's not a real democracy," to "please embrace the spirit of 'aloha,' Mr. Putin" in two days. I'm guessing her paycheck is going to be cut off because of the SWIFT-related sanctions.

    As far as blaming Biden's perceived weakness as the catalyst for Putin's actions, I'm sure the Republicans want to believe that, but they have no proof. Regarding history's last world-shaking conflict in Europe, my understanding was that Germany didn't plan to be embroiled in all-out war until the mid to late 1940s, and they moved up their time table because they saw Britain rearming at a rate they thought they wouldn't be able to counter. Maybe Putin expected November 3 (and January 6) to go differently, and he thought he had four more years of disruption by his puppet to rely on. We'll never know for sure.

    None of my day-to-day routine has changed but I have been sleeping a bit less. On Wednesday a friend of mine at a large financial institution sent a message saying that I should pull some extra cash out of the bank. He said they were getting strong warnings about Russia-based cyberattacks that could disrupt our financial networks, making it difficult or impossible to charge something to a credit card or use an ATM. I felt he might be overreacting, but the next day this popped up on one of the sites I regularly visit.

    It's all fucking awful. I was not trying to downplay the situation at all with this thread, but I felt that creating it and kicking it off the way I did was the Skullbrain thing to do.
     
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  13. Roger

    Roger Prototype

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    World War 3.
  14. hellointerloper

    hellointerloper S7 Royalty

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    World War 3.
    Among my circle of acquaintances, quite a few of them think that the people saying “Support Ukraine” or the like should stop because “what are you actually doing for Ukraine, you’re typing from the comfort of your home. Stop pretending like you actually care.”
    (Like they’re actually doing anything either, but you know, someone always has to feel superior to someone else.)

    My close friends are angry. They don’t think that Putin has any right to do this, and in general “fuck war.” (Unless it’s defensive war I guess)

    The media in the USA is covering it a lot. They’re showing the destruction, the Ukrainians fighting on the streets, people hiding in their basements, basically bringing the human side of this into view. We are almost completely on Ukraine’s side, but we have a few Republicans that say we shouldn’t get involved, and others that think Putin is a genius. (I am not joking.)

    My feelings on it all? I think it’s terrible. Putin is bringing the world back in time, back when colonization was the norm. The USSR is gone. It doesn’t matter anymore. You can’t take that land back just because you “used to have it.”
    But I know that Ukraine is going to put up a hell of a fight. They’ve already trained civilians to fight in worst-case scenarios. (The phrase of the week in my home has been “Babushka Battalion”)
    As for if I feel the USA is any danger? Possibly. The man does have nukes after all. I don’t think war will come to American soil though. We have every opportunity and the ability to shoot down any flying object before it reaches us. A nuke though.. kind of hard to avoid damage because even if it bursts midair, the world will feel its effects.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2022
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  15. Anti Social Andy

    Anti Social Andy Die-Cast

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    World War 3.
    Yeah, most of the time think the same way . . . this is a toy forum and a safe space, away from the real world.

    Was more just curious of how the distance difference might have been impacting perceptions (and this thread seemed the logical place to post).

    Seems like the US gov. is using it for political point-scoring and posturing, whereas the UK (and most of Europe) actually seem to be on the same page for a change.

    I read this morning that Twittler has actually praised Putin as been 'smart' . . . high praise indeed! :roll:

    I am also kinda overwhelmed by the fact Poland is literally welcoming anyone needing sanctuary in with open arms. No passport, no Covid pass. Men, women, children . . . even pets are being let in without question.

    They're not the wealthiest country by a long stretch, but they are intent on doing the right thing. I guess 1939 wasn't THAT long ago! :?
     
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  16. The Moog

    The Moog Die-Cast

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    World War 3.
    From the Guardian website this morning ...

    Why Vladimir Putin has already lost this war.

    by Yuval Noah Harari

    The Russians may yet conquer Ukraine. But Ukrainians have shown in the past few days that they will not let them hold it.

    Less than a week into the war, it seems increasingly likely that Vladimir Putin is heading towards a historic defeat. He may win all the battles but lose the war. Putin’s dream of rebuilding the Russian empire has always rested on the lie that Ukraine isn’t a real nation, that Ukrainians aren’t a real people, and that the inhabitants of Kyiv, Kharkiv and Lviv yearn for Moscow’s rule. That’s a complete lie – Ukraine is a nation with more than a thousand years of history, and Kyiv was already a major metropolis when Moscow was not even a village. But the Russian despot has told his lie so many times that he apparently believes it himself.

    When planning the invasion of Ukraine, Putin could count on many known facts. He knew that militarily Russia dwarfs Ukraine. He knew that Nato would not send troops to help Ukraine. He knew that European dependence on Russian oil and gas would make countries like Germany hesitate about imposing stiff sanctions. Based on these known facts, his plan was to hit Ukraine hard and fast, decapitate its government, establish a puppet regime in Kyiv, and ride out the impotent rage of western sanctions.

    But there was one big unknown about this plan. As the Americans learned in Iraq and the Soviets learned in Afghanistan, it is much easier to conquer a country than to hold it. Putin knew he had the power to conquer Ukraine. But would the Ukrainian people just accept Moscow’s puppet regime? Putin gambled that they would. After all, as he repeatedly explained to anyone willing to listen, Ukraine isn’t a real nation, and the Ukrainians aren’t a real people. In 2014, people in Crimea hardly resisted the Russian invaders. Why should 2022 be any different?

    With each passing day, it is becoming clearer that Putin’s gamble is failing. The Ukrainian people are resisting with all their heart, winning the admiration of the entire world – and winning the war. Many dark days lie ahead. The Russians may still conquer the whole of Ukraine. But to win the war, the Russians would have to hold Ukraine, and they can do that only if the Ukrainian people let them. This seems increasingly unlikely to happen.

    Each Russian tank destroyed and each Russian soldier killed increases the Ukrainians’ courage to resist. And each Ukrainian killed deepens the Ukrainians’ hatred. Hatred is the ugliest of emotions. But for oppressed nations, hatred is a hidden treasure. Buried deep in the heart, it can sustain resistance for generations. To re-establish the Russian empire, Putin needs a relatively bloodless victory that will lead to a relatively hateless peace. By spilling more and more Ukrainian blood, Putin is making sure his dream will never be realised. It won’t be Mikhail Gorbachev’s name written on the death certificate of the Russian empire: it will be Putin’s. Gorbachev left Russians and Ukrainians feeling like siblings; Putin has turned them into enemies, and has ensured that the Ukrainian nation will henceforth define itself in opposition to Russia.

    Nations are ultimately built on stories. Each passing day adds more stories that Ukrainians will tell not only in the dark days ahead, but in the decades and generations to come. The president who refused to flee the capital, telling the US that he needs ammunition, not a ride; the soldiers from Snake Island who told a Russian warship to “go fuck yourself”; the civilians who tried to stop Russian tanks by sitting in their path. This is the stuff nations are built from. In the long run, these stories count for more than tanks.

    The Russian despot should know this as well as anyone. As a child, he grew up on a diet of stories about Russian bravery in the siege of Leningrad. He is now creating more such stories, but casting himself in the role of Hitler.

    The stories of Ukrainian bravery give resolve not only to Ukrainians, but to the whole world. They give courage to the governments of European nations, to the US administration, and even to the oppressed citizens of Russia. If Ukrainians dare to stop a tank with their bare hands, the German government can dare to supply them with some anti-tank missiles, the US government can dare to cut Russia off Swift, and Russian citizens can dare to demonstrate their opposition to this senseless war.

    Unfortunately, this war is likely to be long-lasting. But the most important issue has already been decided. The last few days have proved to the entire world that Ukraine is a real nation, that Ukrainians are a real people, and that they definitely don’t want to live under a new Russian empire. The main question left open is how long it will take for this message to penetrate the Kremlin’s thick walls.

    Yuval Noah Harari is a historian and author of Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind.
     
  17. blakewest

    blakewest Side Dealer

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    World War 3.
    I am always impressed when 'Brainers have coherent things to say. I can barely put two sentences together. Thanks to everyone contributing to this thread.

    The nuclear aspect has been what's been making me anxious. My family lived in Abilene, TX in 80's which was right next to the Air Force Base with one of the largest nuclear arsenals at the time. I think it was the B-2 bombers. I did school projects in elementary school more than once on nuclear weapons and the history of the bomb. All the scaremongering and actual scary facts are etched in my brain, and I always wondered when it would come back. Well here we are. Those nukes never really went away.

    I hope the people of Ukraine are able to stand strong. But I feel like this is a bad turning point for the future of the world as a whole. I really do not want to see another nuclear build up. You can bet that many non-nuclear countries just made the decision to increase resources to whatever secret work they were already doing. And now that Putin has put nukes on the table this time, even if he backs down, what's to stop Trump or Trump 2 to do it in the next Republican administration. He already wanted to nuke a hurricane.
     
  18. ungawa222

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    World War 3.
    I subscribe to NextDraft, a bulletin from the writer Dave Pell, and in his dispatch today he expressed quite correctly the way I and most people I know are thinking about this, here in the U.S.: it is an absolute horror which, in relation to our country, is all of a piece w/ Putin's long game:

    It's all connected. The years of Trump being manipulated into lauding Putin's savvy and genius. The scene in Helsinki when Trump sided with Putin over America's intelligence agencies. The weapons Trump withheld from Ukraine and the perfect phone call to blackmail the Ukrainian president into digging up dirt on Joe Biden. The failure to adequately punish Trump for that international crime. The attacks on NATO. The abandonment of allies. The dictator love. The labeling of the press as enemies of the people. The America First hogwash. The relentless lying. It's all connected to what we see playing out in the streets of Kiev. And still, the likes of Trump, Pompeo, and Tucker Carlson can't bring themselves to side with democracy over the Moscow Murderer. Ordinary Ukranians have the guts to face Putin's army. The Senate GOP was scared to stand up to Trump. And the broader party is afraid to stand up to him and call him out, even now, as he sides with pure evil.

    Fortunately, Europe, Biden, and much of the free world are not so misguided. Putin has unified the alliances he sought to divide. NATO is more determined. The EU is more unified. "The European Union agreed Sunday to close its airspace to Russian airlines, and spend hundreds of millions of euros on buying weapons for Ukraine and ban some pro-Kremlin media outlets in its latest response to Russia's invasion." These nations and organizations understand that this isn't just about a sick, war criminal killing innocent civilians to achieve a hopeless fantasy of piecing back together the Soviet empire, it's a clash between authoritarianism and democracy. As David Remnik writes in The New Yorker, "What threatens Putin is not Ukrainian arms but Ukrainian liberty. "His invasion amounts to a furious refusal to live with the contrast between the repressive system he keeps in place at home and the aspirations for liberal democracy across the border." The fighting is in Ukraine, but the front in this war stretches from Kiev to Mar-a-Lago. Putin's invasion of Ukraine and MAGA's Big Lie are both part of a broad war against democracy. Hopefully Americans will be inspired by Ukrainian bravery and stand up for democracy, because it's all connected.

    As a teen during the Holocaust, my dad was hunted by Ukrainian henchmen working for the Nazis. When history pushed, he pushed back. Today, he would be proud of the courage shown by Ukraine's Jewish president Volodymyr Zelensky. When the U.S. offered him an escape route, he responded, "The fight is here. I need ammunition, not a ride." Man, I wish my dad—who survived the Holocaust because he got a gun and ammunition—was around to hear that line from a Jewish leader in Europe. Zelensky, the former comedian who used to play the part of a fictional president, found himself in a situation that is all to real. The guy Trump thought was so weak that he could be blackmailed during that phone call has proven himself strong enough to become an international hero fighting against a corrupt madman and for democracy. He is the very opposite of Donald Trump. As Franklin Foer writes his Atlantic piece, A Prayer for Volodymyr Zelensky, "The whole world can see that his execution is very likely imminent. What reason does he have to doubt that Vladimir Putin will order his murder, as the Russian leader has done with so many of his bravest critics and enemies?" And yet, as history pushes, the standup stands firm. During the last years of his life, my dad repeatedly lamented that Americans weren't taking the threat to our democracy seriously enough. "Vhy aren't the people out in the streets?" Well, today, inspired by the Ukrainian grandson of a Holocaust survivor, hundreds of thousands of people are taking to the streets across Europe, and even in Russia itself. The fight is there. The fight is here, too. It's the same fight my dad fought. It's all connected.

    The world should have stood up to Putin a long time ago and treated him and his oligarch crew as the criminals they are. But from America to Europe and beyond, they are beginning to stand up to him now. And dictators like China's Xi, who obviously gave Putin the greenlight during their Olympics elbow rubbing, are seeing this resolve. The ruble had been turned to rubble. The sanctions are stiff. The West has weaponized Russia's Central Bank against Putin. Even Switzerland says it will freeze Russian assets, setting aside a tradition of neutrality. The Swiss realize the fight is there, too. There's no room for neutrality anywhere. It's all connected.

    As a 70's/80s kid, I have to say that pundits and polls expressing such open (Bannon & Prince, Carlson) or tacit (Cotton & other GOP fuckwads) support of Putin or their leader Trump's praise of Putin is utterly expected but still somehow amazing. Every one of those people should be unemployed, right now. At least.
     
  19. Roger

    Roger Prototype

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  20. ---NT---

    ---NT--- Prototype

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    World War 3.
    I'm sure everyone is sick of me hounding on FB/Zuckerberg and asking you all to leave all Zuckerberg-owned platforms. But reading the article the one ingredient that's missing is...Facebook. It IS the ground-level connection. As seen here they have the ability to dismantle disinformation networks - but they've chosen not to (except just recently in Ukraine only). Putin is the warhead, but Zuckerberg is the missile.
     
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  21. bryce_r

    bryce_r Die-Cast

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    World War 3.
    Must be nice to have the privilege of joking about human lives. Par for the course from a cunt like Roger.
     
  22. The Moog

    The Moog Die-Cast

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    World War 3.
    ... Manders?
     
  23. ultrakaiju

    ultrakaiju Die-Cast Staff Member

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    World War 3.
    Yeah. Let's keep it civil here folks. This is a worthwhile conversation to have, but does not need to be shut down because of some completely unrelated and inappropriate comments. Warning the first.

    @bryce_r You have been around enough to know such language here and in this context is unacceptable.
     
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  24. Roger

    Roger Prototype

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    World War 3.
    The latest episode of the Reuters Angry Planet podcast had author Mark Galeotti on, talking about Putin's recent changes in behavior and what a long-term conflict in Ukraine could look like for them. This stuck with me:

    Matthew Gault, one of the podcast's hosts, also wrote a very good article for Vice that accurately describes the anxiety a lot of people are feeling:

    https://www.vice.com/en/article/jgmke8/nuclear-war-anxiety-is-back-heres-how-to-manage-it
     
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  25. skaldavsatanssol

    skaldavsatanssol Toy Prince

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    World War 3.
    You’d think so but no. Case in point:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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