skullbrain.org
http://skullbrain.org/legacy/

About "hand painted."
http://skullbrain.org/legacy/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7548		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Roger [ Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:36 pm ]
Post subject:  About "hand painted."
creaturion wrote:
In terms of kaiju, a lot of figures are scarce because they're hand painted, which can take a very long time for each figure.
I've seen references to "hand painted" in a few threads, such as this post by Creaturion in the "state of the union" thread. As far as I know, every vinyl figure by companies like M1GO, Gargamel, Secret Base, etc. is painted by a human holding a brush or airbrush. I'm pretty sure that there are no paint machines involved in these productions. Does "hand painted" have a connotation I'm not considering?
Author:  michael [ Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
yeah, i was wondering the same, like with bemons hand painted vs production painted

are hand painted more or less one offs?
Author:  Mutonismyfriend [ Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
Great question. I actually never considered that a machine wasn't used, so I'd be interested to know more about this.
Author:  redhanded [ Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'd like to know too, I always assumed they were painted by a manned machine, something like an oversized industrial type airbrush. I can't imagine people sitting around airbrushing these toys with some Iwata. If thats true then I need an application and send my resume...

Does someone have pics of this process?

Rodney
Author:  onibaba5 [ Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:  hand painted
I'd be curious to what other connation that references as well. I've seen threads
regarding "hand painted" Bemons and was not sure what difference to other painted Bemons this was implying. There are figures (mostly western vinyl) that do utilize heat transfer, tampo or pad printing machines for graphics, but this rarely seems to apply to Kaiju figures or to some of the companies you listed as examples. More info on the use and meaning of this term would be interesting.
Author:  rhinomilk [ Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
i was wondering the same thing too...

i sorta thought the term should be used for one offs

like, I don't see kozik's rumble babies as being "hand painted"

& suppose an airbrush was used.... can it still be "hand painted"? as opposed to a paint and brush?
Author:  redhanded [ Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well, what do 'we' mean by handpainted?
100% painted by hand with an actual brush?

I wish I knew more on the 'how' they do it... someone here has got to know...
Author:  the_z [ Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm not sure about the extent of "automization" that Secret Base or Gargamel use in production of their figures...but I'd assume that most of the "spray" effects are done by hand. It's not like their cranking out a 1000 apiece of any of them or anything...

As for the term "hand-painted," I think it's usually used in terms of a "one-off" color scheme done by the artist himself. Like the hand-painted skullwings done by Pushead...or the bemons. The first bemons were all "hand-painted" by the creator and all are unique paint schemes. No one figure is the same. Thus the new "factory-painted" editions consist of multiples of a particular color combo.
Author:  onibaba5 [ Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
redhanded wrote:
I'd like to know too, I always assumed they were painted by a manned machine, something like an oversized industrial type airbrush. I can't imagine people sitting around airbrushing these toys with some Iwata. If thats true then I need an application and send my resume...

Does someone have pics of this process?

Rodney


Most production especially for mass production toy figures involves various "paint stations" whereas a worker applies one color in the same place or places using an airbrush, brush, masks. Figure is then dropped on a conveyer belt to next paint station for the next color application. Even mcdonalds happy meal toys go thru paint stations.
Cheap/slave labor is how most toys are made. However, I think most contemporary, independent small Japanese vinyl companies utilize their own artists or the creators themselves do the actual painting thus offering a higher quality piece. Thats been my understanding and rational for paying the prices we do on these.
Author:  redhanded [ Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
the_z wrote:
I'm not sure about the extent of "automization" that Secret Base or Gargamel use in production of their figures...but I'd assume that most of the "spray" effects are done by hand. It's not like their cranking out a 1000 apiece of any of them or anything...

As for the term "hand-painted," I think it's usually used in terms of a "one-off" color scheme done by the artist himself. Like the hand-painted skullwings done by Pushead...or the bemons. The first bemons were all "hand-painted" by the creator and all are unique paint schemes. No one figure is the same. Thus the new "factory-painted" editions consist of multiples of a particular color combo.


Yeah, I see, but I thinking about what Marusan, Marmit, and the other companies how and what they do. I'd like to know that too.
Redhanded
Author:  onibaba5 [ Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
redhanded wrote:
the_z wrote:
I'm not sure about the extent of "automization" that Secret Base or Gargamel use in production of their figures...but I'd assume that most of the "spray" effects are done by hand. It's not like their cranking out a 1000 apiece of any of them or anything...

As for the term "hand-painted," I think it's usually used in terms of a "one-off" color scheme done by the artist himself. Like the hand-painted skullwings done by Pushead...or the bemons. The first bemons were all "hand-painted" by the creator and all are unique paint schemes. No one figure is the same. Thus the new "factory-painted" editions consist of multiples of a particular color combo.


Yeah, I see, but I thinking about what Marusan, Marmit, and the other companies how and what they do. I'd like to know that too.
Redhanded


They use a factory with an assembly line of workers and paint stations for each figure. Each worker hand paints with an airbrush or a regular brush along with utilizing paint masks. A very toxic job that requires much protection and ventalation.
Author:  onibaba5 [ Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
here is a link to a factory in China Shenzhen Wah Fung Toys Co., Ltd.
Play the video and you get a glimpse of the assembly line and paint stations for manufacturing figures. Now this is a huge factory cranking huge volumes but the principle idea to produce smaller runs would be the same, the factory just charges it's customer more per piece. Quantity dictates price.

http://wahfung.en.alibaba.com/videoshow.html
Author:  andy [ Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
The only designer I can comment on with any certainty or authority is Cronic. He told me he hand paints his figures, which can take an hour or longer for each one, when multiple colors are used. So that sounds to me like he's sitting there airbrushing each figure, one by one.

Or maybe "hand sprayed" would be a better term?

BTW, I think it's important to make a distinction between figures with paint apps applied by hand (whether it's one or several artists involved in the process) versus pad printed paint apps applied by a machine. The first involves craftsmanship. The second involves pressing several buttons.
Author:  redhanded [ Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
onibaba5 wrote:
here is a link to a factory in China Shenzhen Wah Fung Toys Co., Ltd.
Play the video and you get a glimpse of the assembly line and paint stations for manufacturing figures. Now this is a huge factory cranking huge volumes but the principle idea to produce smaller runs would be the same, the factory just charges it's customer more per piece. Quantity dictates price.

http://wahfung.en.alibaba.com/videoshow.html


Wow, thanks a lot man!
Author:  onibaba5 [ Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
creaturion wrote:
The only designer I can comment on with any certainty or authority is Cronic. He told me he hand paints his figures, which can take an hour or longer for each one, when multiple colors are used. So that sounds to me like he's sitting there airbrushing each figure, one by one.

Or maybe "hand sprayed" would be a better term?

BTW, I think it's important to make a distinction between figures with paint apps applied by hand (whether it's one or several artists involved in the process) versus pad printed paint apps applied by a machine. The first involves craftsmanship. The second involves pressing several buttons.


I totally agree with you and make that distinction in my comments above on the thread.
Author:  Roger [ Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
To help this along I can brain dump what I know about two kaiju makers, M1GO and Marusan: after the figures are assembled, one person hand-sprays the broad strokes with an airbrush. At Marusan, the same person paints on the details like eyeballs and teeth. At M1GO, one or two other people handle this task.

(Note that regarding Marusan's stuff this only applies to the Toho and Tsuburaya kaiju toys that they make in Japan. The TEDEROS stuff is assembled and painted in China, presumably by larger teams of workers.)

I have a DVD of a TV show that shows the Marusan process and factories, and I'm currently trying to get permission to post it online. Here are a couple of pics from a recent visit to M1GO that fit in with the discussion:

Image
Image

The production runs that these companies deal with are so low that it would be a waste of time, effort, and money to set up a machine to do this work, and I think it's safe to assume that the same applies to Bear Model, Gargamel, etc.

From what I'm told, tampo printing is a manual (i.e. human-based) process. It's really just a specially carved stamp for fine details. Even with something as mass-produced as Star Wars figures I believe it's done by people rather than machines.

I can accept the definition of "hand-painted" as something painted by the artist themselves, like Pushead. That makes it special enough to have a special designation.

Incidentally, I thought Cronic was a company's name, not an artist's name. That clears up a lot of my initial confusion about your post, Creaturion. Thanks.
Author:  andy [ Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
Excellent photos and write up, thanks Roger.

Cronic is the "artist name" (for lack of a better term) of Naoki Koiwa. While doing the research for my article, I was surprised to learn he handles *every* aspect of the production process, including the figure sculpting, painting, header card design, etc. That's really keeping it real!

Oh, Mark Nagata also hand paints every Alien Xam finger puppet himself. (Incidentally, the current issue of Playtimes has my write up of the new full sized Alien Xam figures.)

One of the things I love about new kaiju is the degree to which the artists are involved in so many aspects of the production process.

Side note, not sure if you all know this, but Koji (cometdebris) was one of the painters for Bwana's Earth Restroyer. :)
Author:  meary [ Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
great info, this kind of thing is fascinating to me so anything anyone can share is much appreciated!

so in order of best to worst we have (in my opinion):
hand painted by the artist (ie. bemon and anrakuansaku)
hand painted by some guy at the company (gargamel does this?)
hand painted by some guy at a factory
painted by a machine in China
Author:  Roger [ Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
creaturion wrote:
Cronic is the "artist name" (for lack of a better term) of Naoki Koiwa. While doing the research for my article, I was surprised to learn he handles *every* aspect of the production process, including the figure sculpting, painting, header card design, etc. That's really keeping it real!
That is really cool, especially since he has the drive and energy to keep up with all of those aspects himself.

I really enjoy learning about and discussing how this stuff is made as much as collecting it. It surprises me that there are people in this business who really don't have an interest in learning where their robots and monsters come from.
Author:  andy [ Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
I totally agree. I love threads like this and am learning a lot from all the great posts!
Author:  joshuajh [ Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
i think a more appropriate term for 'hand painted' in the context of a a toy like the first several runs of bemon figures, or the painted white skullwings would be something like 'one of a kind', 'custom', or 'unique', something like that. making a distinction in terms of value or quality between using a brush, or airbrush, a sponge, whatever doesnt make much sense. if a piece of art is great, does it matter what tools the artist used? however making a distinction between a uniquely painted one-off piece and a run of pieces painted with some process to be the same is definitely worth while.
Author:  andy [ Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
But in the case of figures like the early skullwings where more than one piece was made, can we still call it "unique" or "one of a kind" or even "custom"? (Or were you referring to the hand painted skullwings that are each different? Because in that case, I would agree with your distinction.)

I guess we all agree that hand painted kaiju are all hand painted no matter what tool was used or who did the painting. The distinction that really interests me is "hand painted in a factory on an assembly line by people who don't even know what they're looking at" versus "hand painted by the original creator or a small team of artists working closely with him".

For me, it's that distinction that makes all the difference. Why? Well, I like to know I'm directly supporting the artists involved in the creative process. I also think it's wonderful that some figures are still painted by hand on a small scale by dedicated artist(s), as opposed to being painted mostly or entirely by a machine or on an assembly line.
Author:  joshuajh [ Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
creaturion wrote:
But in the case of figures like the early skullwings where more than one piece was made, can we still call it "unique" or "one of a kind" or even "custom"? (Or were you referring to the hand painted skullwings that are each different? Because in that case, I would agree with your distinction.)


yeah, i was talking about the painted flocked skullwings.
Author:  andy [ Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ah gotcha. Yeah I think "one of a kind" is a good one for those figures.

I guess it gets more confusing with other pieces, which may be made in runs of 50 or 100. Since, technically, so much kaiju is "hand painted" by someone or other, either at a small studio in Japan or a factory in Guangdong, maybe "hand painted by the designer" would be a clearer term. Though it is kind of bulky...
Author:  joshuajh [ Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
creaturion wrote:
Ah gotcha. Yeah I think "one of a kind" is a good one for those figures. Since, technically, so much kaiju is "hand painted" by someone or other, either at a small studio in Japan or a factory in Guangdong, maybe "hand painted by the designer" would be a clearer term. Though it is kind of bulky...


maybe we could all just start saying 'super duper extra special!' :)
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/