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Californians – Please vote YES on Prop 2.
http://skullbrain.org/legacy/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=25835		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  havingmysay [ Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Californians – Please vote YES on Prop 2.
help alleviate some of the suffering that animals go through.
http://www.yesonprop2.com/
Author:  abelincolnjr [ Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Californians – Please vote YES on Prop 2.
havingmysay wrote:
help alleviate some of the suffering that animals go through.
http://www.yesonprop2.com/


Hippie :twisted:
Author:  UnderBeit [ Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Californians – Please vote YES on Prop 2.
Another hippie voting yes on this one. When in their TV ads, all the 'No' camp can come up with is trying to spread the vaguely xenophobic message that we'll become dependent on foreign (read: unclean) foreign sources for eggs....I don't know, it just really smacks of desperation to me.
Author:  downwithgnomes [ Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Californians – Please vote YES on Prop 2.
Wish I could help out, but I'm no longer a Californian.

Can you believe something similar passed in Arizona recently? A RED state. It gave pigs for slaughter more room.

does being vegan make me hippy too?
Cause my hair is too short to be a hippy, and I hate the grateful dead and phish.
Author:  abelincolnjr [ Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Californians – Please vote YES on Prop 2.
downwithgnomes wrote:
does being vegan make me hippy too?

yes.

EDIT: Unless you're a straight edge vegan, because then your basically a Pilgrim.
Author:  downwithgnomes [ Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Californians – Please vote YES on Prop 2.
i AM Straight Edge Vegan...but I can't be a pilgrim, because i'm an atheist.

i think being straight edge vegan just makes me "nostalgic" since all the "real" straight edgers sell out by the time they hit my age.
Author:  abelincolnjr [ Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Californians – Please vote YES on Prop 2.
downwithgnomes wrote:
i AM Straight Edge Vegan...but I can't be a pilgrim, because i'm an atheist.

i think being straight edge vegan just makes me "nostalgic" since all the "real" straight edgers sell out by the time they hit my age.



Please note the purple means im just messing around... its ok pilgrim ;)
Author:  downwithgnomes [ Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Californians – Please vote YES on Prop 2.
I know its sarcastic, I am very sarcastic myself....

I just find it fun to treat sarcasm as truth in most situations....its my own form of sarcasm.
Author:  hollywdbri [ Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Californians – Please vote YES on Prop 2.
voting yes
Author:  Pogue [ Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Californians – Please vote YES on Prop 2.
all the people at the farmers market here in SF said to vote no on this one. I am confused.
Author:  bryce_r [ Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Californians – Please vote YES on Prop 2.
Pogue wrote:
all the people at the farmers market here in SF said to vote no on this one. I am confused.


The reason why some farmers want to vote NO...is the greater risk of salmonella in foods, eggs and other foods could potentially be carted in from Mexico (not that Mexico is bad but they have different standards) and prices of food will go up.
Author:  Pogue [ Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Californians – Please vote YES on Prop 2.
it was the tomato farmer and guy we buy our eggs from that told us to vote no. I am going to ask a few others this weekend. I am going to do what the people who grow my food tell me to do. I will keep you posted on what they say.
Author:  Monkey [ Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Californians – Please vote YES on Prop 2.
Pogue wrote:
it was the tomato farmer and guy we buy our eggs from that told us to vote no. I am going to ask a few others this weekend. I am going to do what the people who grow my food tell me to do. I will keep you posted on what they say.


If the people who grow your food are torturing animals, don't listen to them. :lol:
Author:  Pogue [ Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Californians – Please vote YES on Prop 2.
The people that grow my food are small local farmers. If voting against prop 2 keeps them in business I think it might be the right thing to do. I have sent a few emails tonight. I will post their comments when they send them.
Author:  rhinomilk [ Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Californians – Please vote YES on Prop 2.
Pogue wrote:
The people that grow my food are small local farmers. If voting against prop 2 keeps them in business I think it might be the right thing to do. I have sent a few emails tonight. I will post their comments when they send them.


yes please do. the Yes on Prop 2 commercial i see on tv looks like a crock of shit
Author:  Monkey [ Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Californians – Please vote YES on Prop 2.
Pogue wrote:
The people that grow my food are small local farmers. If voting against prop 2 keeps them in business I think it might be the right thing to do. I have sent a few emails tonight. I will post their comments when they send them.


My sister and brother-in-law are organic farmers and make their living off of local farmers markets and vending directly with local restaurants. They produce cheese, process pigs, and raise free range chickens for eggs. If their livestock were in these kinds of conditions not only would they lose their credibility, but the quality of their product would suffer. There is NO reason for this EVER.
But that's just my opinion, let's see what the Californians have to say.

If you want to see how we do it in the Bluegrass state: http://www.stonecrossfarm.com/
Author:  Pogue [ Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Californians – Please vote YES on Prop 2.
So this is the response I got:

"Hi Glenn.

All of the farmers we buy from already exceed by far any mandates by
Prop 2. All of the meat we buy comes from farmers who give their
animals no growth hormones, no antibiotics, all vegetarian feed and
lots of space and sunshine. If you'd like to see a list of some of
the farms we work with, you can see them here:

http://www.fattedcalf.com/links.html

So in answer to your question, we support Prop 2 and don't envision it
having any adverse effect on our business.

There is absolutely no need to confine farm animals to windowless factories.

Thanks for the inquiry, and we hope to see you this Saturday.

Taylor Boetticher
Fatted Calf Charcuterie
644 1st Street
Napa, CA, 94559
707-256-3684"

I will vote with these guys since we actually buy most of our meat from them. I am curious why my the egg dude told me to vote no. I fear I have been eating bad eggs.
Author:  Monkey [ Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Californians – Please vote YES on Prop 2.
Pogue wrote:

I will vote with these guys since we actually buy most of our meat from them. I am curious why my the egg dude told me to vote no. I fear I have been eating bad eggs.


If I had to guess it may have something to do with fear of regulation or perhaps inspections costs that may be levied on farmers already in compliance.

Regulations often make small farmers jump through an unfair amount of hoops that would help to limit cruel activity on larger factory farms. Licensing and inspection fees are nothing for multi-million dollar operations but to small farms can really cut into the budget. You ought to have a conversation with your egg supplier, and see what their real opposition is.
Author:  joshuajh [ Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Californians – Please vote YES on Prop 2.
i dont know enough about the business implications of prop 2 yet, but here are a couple of links, if anyone is interested.

i will be voting yes.

new york times addressing the issue of animal cruelty
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/09/opini ... ref=slogin

the prop 2 campaign fact sheet
http://www.yesonprop2.com/index.php?opt ... Itemid=117
Author:  Locomoco [ Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Californians – Please vote YES on Prop 2.
I want my rack of lamb to have been a happy rack of lamb... :wink:

I want my mint jelly to have been happy too. :D
Author:  BobDuher [ Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Californians – Please vote YES on Prop 2.
It's not surprising that your local farmers want you to vote "no" Glenn. If they have to give chickens enough room to move around they will either have to a) raise less chickens, or b) buy more land to support the same amount of chickens. I'm a little unclear on this one. I always look at who's for or against and where the money is coming from to support the Bill. For example, the measure to increase renewable energy is being promoted by a guy who's business would go through the roof because he controls large natural gas resources. But the energy companies are fiercly against it. I will vote on the belief that energy companies don't have our interests at heart. You may remember during the energy blackouts, energy companies would conspire to turn off energy stations for 'maintenance'. Since it's a supply and demand world, this would reduce supply and increase the cost to you and me. If we apply this rational to the Chickens? Well who will profit and who will lose. Seems like the farmers will lose out unless they pass the cost on to us. So my guess is that if prices are raised, people will buy less eggs. Personally, I already buy eggs from free-range chickens. Yes, they are more expensive than eggs from confined chickens costing about twice as much. With this said, I will vote no on 2. If enough people buy free- range eggs, farmers will supply them, taking away production of non free-range chicken eggs.
Author:  havingmysay [ Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Californians – Please vote YES on Prop 2.
BobDuher wrote:
Personally, I already buy eggs from free-range chickens. Yes, they are more expensive than eggs from confined chickens costing about twice as much. With this said, I will vote no on 2. If enough people buy free- range eggs, farmers will supply them, taking away production of non free-range chicken eggs.


bob, no offense, but that is the silliest argument for voting no i've heard yet. keeping things the same will not encourage people to buy free range eggs. and if you go by your reasoning to see who is paying for what... the argument for no is funded by large corporate farms... http://www.yesonprop2.com/index.php?opt ... &Itemid=77
Author:  BobDuher [ Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Californians – Please vote YES on Prop 2.
havingmysay wrote:
BobDuher wrote:
Personally, I already buy eggs from free-range chickens. Yes, they are more expensive than eggs from confined chickens costing about twice as much. With this said, I will vote no on 2. If enough people buy free- range eggs, farmers will supply them, taking away production of non free-range chicken eggs.


bob, no offense, but that is the silliest argument for voting no i've heard yet. keeping things the same will not encourage people to buy free range eggs. and if you go by your reasoning to see who is paying for what... the argument for no is funded by large corporate farms... http://www.yesonprop2.com/index.php?opt ... &Itemid=77


That's what I'm saying....if people wanted free range eggs, they would buy them. Right now, People have a choice. This bill wants to take away that choice and have everybody buy free range. As far as the corporate backing is involved, that is just so you have complete information. My first instinct was to vote FOR this bill since all the major corporate farms are against it, but I didn't let that be my only reasoning. The only thing that my argument didn't mention is the chickens. How do they feel about the whole thing? So here's what I'm saying. If people want free range eggs, let them vote with their pocket books and buy them. Why do you want to impose your beliefs on someone else?
Author:  havingmysay [ Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Californians – Please vote YES on Prop 2.
i'm not imposing my beliefs at all.. i just don't understand your logic. if this bill passes it will by no means force factory farmers to have free range chickens, just to limit the confinement of farm animals, not just chickens.
Author:  BobDuher [ Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Californians – Please vote YES on Prop 2.
havingmysay wrote:
i'm not imposing my beliefs at all.. i just don't understand your logic. if this bill passes it will by no means force factory farmers to have free range chickens, just to limit the confinement of farm animals, not just chickens.


Well, let's agree that we disagree. Should we move on to Prop 8?
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