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Sculpting images
http://skullbrain.org/legacy/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=27852		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Rich [ Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Sculpting images
As of right now I have started with a sculptor on getting a figure made. This is his first time making a toy so I have been searching for images of toys in the process. To give him some help.

So if you have any images of sculpts in the process it would be fully appreciated.

There was a thread awhile back when squirm was getting made. If you saved any of those images please PM of post them for me.

Thanks all !
Author:  hellopike [ Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sculpting images
this is the only one I have, hope it helps.

Image

phil
Author:  Rich [ Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sculpting images
So funny, I found this on your flickr and saved it. Then I saw the little note on the bottom :)

This is a great start !
Author:  Joe [ Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sculpting images
I'm embarrassed to call myself a Rangeas fan having not seen that before.
Thanks for posting it up!
Author:  hellopike [ Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sculpting images
I found it on a french forum somewheres. Glad I could spread some info around. I hopw some other people have some neat pics to post here too.

phil
Author:  mondocoyote [ Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sculpting images
Image

This is an image Pogue posted. It doesn't show the process, but it does show you how smooth, and clean the sculpt will have to be. I'd love to know at what stage in the sculpt all the details and sanding/smoothing happen- whether it's before or after the clay is cooked.
Author:  Rich [ Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sculpting images
mondocoyote wrote:
Image

This is an image Pogue posted. It doesn't show the process, but it does show you how smooth, and clean the sculpt will have to be. I'd love to know at what stage in the sculpt all the details and sanding/smoothing happen- whether it's before or after the clay is cooked.



Does the sculpt really have to be smooth ?

But yes I believe it takes place during clay. A little turp will smooth out the clay some amazing.
Author:  mondocoyote [ Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sculpting images
LASH wrote:
Does the sculpt really have to be smooth ?



Honestly... I don't know . But from what little casting I've done, I've found that the mold will reproduce any defects found in your sculpt perfectly. Look at any of the successful sculpts. You can't see the tool marks, just clean line, texture or smooth surfaces. I have also found that my clear resin casts have had a frosted look, which I'm assuming is down to an unpolished surface. Maybe the same would happen with vinyl? I'm still learning, and am hoping some of the guys who have taken their sculpting further will pipe in on this thread. Sculpting, or trying to, has really taken my appreciation of the toys to a new level.
Author:  Robert DeCastro [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sculpting images
This link ( http://www.atomicmushroomtoys.com/gallery.html ) goes to my Website Gallery. There's allot of production pics there. Sculpts usually start with either clay or wax (Azbro or Castelene). The smoothness is usually achieved in the tooling phase. You take the clay or wax master sculpt and make a rubber (silicone RTV) mold for it. The casting is then sanded and/or polished to give it that finished look, this is usually used as a prototype and/or paint masters. The prototype after approval is then used to make a wax copy. Now in the case of rotomolded toys the sculptor will need to make the sculpt a bit larger, this is because when you make the final wax copy the wax will shrink. The wax casting is then plated in copper and the wax is melted or burned out. You now have a metal rotation mold.

The effects of mold surfaces;
Smooth= glossy finish like most JP vinyl, when cast in clear material you get a more crystal clear effect. Great when using innards.
Rough= Matte finish like most non JP vinyl. When cast in clear material you get a more frosted glass effect.
This pretty much applies to resin toys as well.
Author:  REdYOdA [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sculpting images
On the Toypunks dvd there's that nice little extras segment showing Kiyoka sculpting a Bako.

Might be worth checking out.
Author:  Monkey [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sculpting images
REdYOdA wrote:
On the Toypunks dvd there's that nice little extras segment showing Kiyoka sculpting a Bako.

Might be worth checking out.


Look close, there are mock ups of a Pocket hedoran brothers set in the background!
Author:  Rich [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sculpting images
So funny, my sculpter nver made a toy before and his only really knowledge with any sort of current toy where d u nn i es.

When I meet up with him I brought along my fink shit a mutant chaos and the toy punks DVD. I said before we go any further pretend that you NEVER saw a du nn ie or anything kid robot. Watch this DVD and then we will go further.

When he came back he said I understand, I now want to sculpt something that has never been seen before. Instant hunger !

He also mentioned that he studied the sculpting scene.

I honestly thought I would have seen more pics. Either no one is reading this thread or no one want to help. I'm very surprised.

But a BIG thanks to those that did post images and advise. I think from the little I have is better than nothing.
Author:  bansheebot [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sculpting images
LASH wrote:
I honestly thought I would have seen more pics. Either no one is reading this thread or no one want to help. I'm very surprised.

Well, we've never seen a photo of you stripping or painting a toy, so it might be the same sort of deal. They either a) don't exist, or b) aren't really shared with the public.

Either way, I look forward to what you're working on.
Author:  Joe [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sculpting images
I think LASH throws dollar bills at his toys and they strip themselves. :lol:
Author:  Rich [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sculpting images
bansheebot wrote:
LASH wrote:
I honestly thought I would have seen more pics. Either no one is reading this thread or no one want to help. I'm very surprised.

Well, we've never seen a photo of you stripping or painting a toy, so it might be the same sort of deal. They either a) don't exist, or b) aren't really shared with the public.

Either way, I look forward to what you're working on.


They are out there, I know for a fact that Super7 posted in progress images of the squirm when it was getting made. Sadly when I lost all my info on my laptop I lost all those images. Now I cant seem to find them.

If someone really wanted to see in progress shots of what I do I would give it to them, its noting out of the normal. What makes all of us unique is what we do with it.

Sculpts get made everyday. Its the sculptor that makes it unique.

And Joe you just reused that joke ! :)
Author:  Rich [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sculpting images
Besides what I really want to find out is about the neck body joints. How are they made ??

Do you sculpt the entire figure then cut off or are these made on purpose. From what I have seen and now that I have been looking at toys in this manner I think they are made with the joints in mind.

Esp after looking at that codo image.
Author:  Joe [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sculpting images
LASH wrote:
And Joe you just reused that joke ! :)

Really? I have bad memory.
Author:  JoeMan [ Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sculpting images
LASH wrote:
Besides what I really want to find out is about the neck body joints. How are they made ??

Do you sculpt the entire figure then cut off or are these made on purpose. From what I have seen and now that I have been looking at toys in this manner I think they are made with the joints in mind.

Esp after looking at that codo image.


This is what I gather. Can't say for sure 100% because, you can sculpt the seams flat, I actually make little peg joints, just a small hole and peg so I can attach the arms and neck to the body, just because I like to see everything assembled and gauge the full figure. The factory will take your sculpt, mold it, cast it in wax than drop the articulation in on the wax casting.
Author:  Robert DeCastro [ Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sculpting images
LASH wrote:
Besides what I really want to find out is about the neck body joints. How are they made ??

Do you sculpt the entire figure then cut off or are these made on purpose. From what I have seen and now that I have been looking at toys in this manner I think they are made with the joints in mind.

Esp after looking at that codo image.


The joints are done in several ways but commonly (when done as a factory production piece) the joints (articulation points) are done in the tooling phase. The figure is usually done in one piece. When the figure is being prepared as a final wax, the figure is separated at the articulation points. They do this at this phase because of the simple reason that the wax copy is easily cut and if you make a mistake you can just make another wax casting. The engineers then add the plugs for the joints and the gate (where the material will pour in) in wax and they plate that to make a mold. More experienced sculptors (outside the factory's stable of sculptors) that are familiar with the production process will sculpt the toy with all the articulating parts already separated (no plugs, that's added by the factory for the most part). This is specially useful if your sculpt is kinda un-usual like a Dorol for instance. If you have a factory you're working with right now, you might want to talk with their engineers so that you and your sculptor are on the same page as to the most efficient way to get this done. I say this because sometimes the design doesn't work 100% as a vinyl toy. Take my Combat R Zero for instance. I wanted articulation at the legs (simple rotation) and at the elbow (rotation), but the factory engineers told me that putting a joint at the legs would make the figure unstable and would make the figure fall on his face. The joints on the elbow would make the arms bend in an un-natural way when displayed for a prolonged period because of the weight of the forearms against the skinny upper arm parts.

I'm not really sure if this is for a vinyl or resin figure. In the case of resin, specially where everything is done in house (that's literal in my case, lol) your sculptor will def need to establish the system your going to use so that you can make the joints plug in and rotate. In this case I've separated the joints at the AP, and will add the plugs when I'm ready to make the RTV molds. Since the resin is solid, a flange at the end of the plug (male end) will not be possible unless the part that it will go into separates. This is why most resin figures have no articulation. Pressure fitting the parts is the few if not the only way articulation can be done.

BTW didn't the link I provided work?
Author:  Zaaier [ Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sculpting images
I've been wondering about the joints for a while now ... Roberto, thanks and respect for clearing some of that 'smoke' up. So much to learn!
Author:  bryce_r [ Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sculpting images
Image
Author:  CannibalKaiju [ Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sculpting images
Here is the dude im working on...

Image
Author:  melek_taus [ Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sculpting images
Cool. Was wondering what happened with that dude.
Author:  VELOCITRON [ Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sculpting images
1) For smoothing Sculpey, turp before firing and sand after. Be careful about using turpentine if you are scuplting over pre-fired Sculpey, though, because it can cause hairline fractures when you bake the new stuff.

2) Robert's comments on jointing are right-on, but I would actually advise you to do the joints yourself for a few reasons: First, casting individual parts in latex is usually easier than casting an entire figure. Second, there is a definite possibility he will have to make two sets of molds (pre-cut and then piece by piece) if he has to do the cuts himself. Third, it'll drive the cost of prototyping up. Finally, you'll probably have to live with very straight, rigid joints which are great for robots but not as good for more organic sculpts. Sorry, not trying to contradict Robert, just trying to provide a different perspective.

3) As Mondo said, the figure can be as perfect or imperfect as you want. Want a thumbprint on his butt? No problem. The Bemon Pollution Monster and all the Longneck stuff (done by the same sculptor) really shows this: the "mistakes" are still there and actually become part of the design.

Sorry, I should have chimed in here earlier but I didn't notice the thread :oops:
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