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Nerd Taxonomy - What is a Proto?
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Author:  abelincolnjr [ Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:36 am ]
Post subject:  Nerd Taxonomy - What is a Proto?
OK, granted this is the epitome of Toy Nerdery and Anal Retentive Message Board Behaviour (ie Grammar Nazis)...
BUT I have been seeing a lot of stuff on the sales board of "Protos" for sale, when in fact they are just unpainted regular releases.

A proto is short for Prototype which are ususally limited to a few pieces that were poured as a test run for a figure pre-release and only available to the people who created the toy.

Not stepping up to reprimand the noobs or anything just sayin...

GET IT RIGHT NOOBS!
:evil:
Author:  Ultra999 [ Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Nerd Taxonomy - What is a Proto?
agreed! protos sit on a higher shelf than “mere” blanks.
Author:  gatchabert [ Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nerd Taxonomy - What is a Proto?
What makes this bad is that there is sometimes no difference between the proto and the final. It's not like a piece of furniture where you can sometimes see the differences (like using a fatter bolt or a change in angle). The only time I'd call a toy a proto is if I'm 100% sure that it is what it is. Outside of that, it is just an unpainted toy.
Author:  Biff [ Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nerd Taxonomy - What is a Proto?
The only true proto I own looks like a 'custom' since it was handpainted to show the colors for the factory painted pieces.
Author:  Roger [ Fri Oct 22, 2010 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nerd Taxonomy - What is a Proto?
In the broadest sense, a prototype is something that's not in the form it was intended to be released. With toys, what makes a proto more or less significant is 1) was the final product released? 2) if so, how close is it to the final product?

Is it an original wax or clay sculpting, or a hardcopy taken from silicon molds? If so, you have something cool. If it's just a test shot from the tooling using funky colored plastic (or the same color plastic for the final release), well, it's really not that special.

For instance, perusing this... http://theswca.com/images-protos.html

Concept figure, unique and valuable (if it ever even changed hands):
http://theswca.com/index.php?action=dis ... m_id=48892

More of these made, closer to the final product but still valuable:
http://theswca.com/index.php?action=dis ... m_id=48808

A lot of items in the sofubi world that get labeled as "prototypes" are really just unpainted figures. The tooling has been created and the maker is just running some vinyl through it to see if it pulls well and how the figure looks. It's more accurate to call these "test shots" or "first shots."
Author:  ---NT--- [ Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nerd Taxonomy - What is a Proto?
Good distinction, Roger! Yeah, I don't know that I've ever seen a sofubi, "neo-kaiju", whatever prototype, and certainly not in anyones collection - at best they're test shots. I wonder if these small run toys even have cast prototypes - I'm guessing that once a mold is made that that's it, that's the end result as far as the sculpt goes and so there are only the original sculpt from which the mold is made and then test shots prior to production.
Author:  BloodDrinker6969 [ Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nerd Taxonomy - What is a Proto?
I think "custom" "1-off" and "HP" are all different things. "1-off" and "HP" are pretty much the same I guess (assuming the 1-off is a-painted and b-by the 'creator' or someone designated by them to do so.) "Custom" to me is a toy painted to fit someone's "custom" order or desire and generally not by someone the toy creator designates to do it.

Drives me nuts!

I'm with you Roger as well on test shots.
Author:  ---NT--- [ Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nerd Taxonomy - What is a Proto?
Agreed. HP or 1-off are done by the creator. Customs are just "ruined" by unaffiliated people with varying degrees of talent. :wink:
Also, a figure doodled on with a sharpie by the creator at SDCC is not a 1-off or HP - it's just an unpainted figure with a crappy doodle on it.
Author:  abelincolnjr [ Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nerd Taxonomy - What is a Proto?
---NT--- wrote:

Also, a figure doodled on with a sharpie by the creator at SDCC is not a 1-off or HP - it's just an unpainted figure with a crappy doodle on it.


:lol: :lol: :lol:
Author:  BloodDrinker6969 [ Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nerd Taxonomy - What is a Proto?
Can I cast a clear vinyl toy, take a dump in it, call it "art" and get 6 figures for it? I am in the WRONG line of work.
Author:  Daimyo [ Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nerd Taxonomy - What is a Proto?
Well aren't AP's supposed to be Proto's? Still, anymore it seems like a lot of AP's are just a few of the regular run given to the artist that may have one little HP detail or num/signed. Still though, a true AP is Proto status imo.
Author:  silver_lining_man [ Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nerd Taxonomy - What is a Proto?
BloodDrinker6969 wrote:
I think "custom" "1-off" and "HP" are all different things. "1-off" and "HP" are pretty much the same I guess (assuming the 1-off is a-painted and b-by the 'creator' or someone designated by them to do so.) "Custom" to me is a toy painted to fit someone's "custom" order or desire and generally not by someone the toy creator designates to do it.

Drives me nuts!

I'm with you Roger as well on test shots.


i have noticed that some HP's have up to 5 or so "versions" made. granted, all are different in that they were all hand-painted, but follow the same scheme. whereas 1-offs or just that. 1.

now, what would a toy that was hand painted by someone other than the creator, but with approval of the creator, and being tagged as an actual release be called?

---NT--- wrote:
Also, a figure doodled on with a sharpie by the creator at SDCC is not a 1-off or HP - it's just an unpainted figure with a crappy doodle on it.

TOTALLY agreed. i thought i was the only one that felt this way. glad someone else voiced there opinion. :lol:
Author:  Roger [ Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nerd Taxonomy - What is a Proto?
---NT--- wrote:
I wonder if these small run toys even have cast prototypes - I'm guessing that once a mold is made that that's it, that's the end result as far as the sculpt goes and so there are only the original sculpt from which the mold is made and then test shots prior to production.
Obitsu's site seems to confirm this for sofubi:

http://www.obitsu.co.jp/eng/seisaku/fr_seisaku.html

Step 1 is original clay sculpting, step 2 is wax copies that get destroyed in the mold making process.

I know that when Hasbro makes Star Wars figures, in addition to wax castings there are also "hard copies" that get cast in stronger material. They use these as paint masters and for product photos.

School me on the lingo here, please. HP = hand paint (which never made sense to me because with the exception of some things like LEGO, robots don't paint our toys), but what is AP?
Author:  hellopike [ Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nerd Taxonomy - What is a Proto?
Artist Proof
Author:  silver_lining_man [ Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nerd Taxonomy - What is a Proto?
hellopike wrote:
Artist Proof


i never liked that term.
doesn't feel very toyish to me.
i like to keep my toys toys, not some art slogan.
with that said, from now on, my unpainted brown pestar will be referred to as "the brown one."
Author:  il_muffino [ Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nerd Taxonomy - What is a Proto?
I think I recall Brian posting about the unpainted black Dokuwashi being different from all production runs made after. It was taller or shorter, or something. If that's true, would that make that one a true prototype? I'm going to try to find that post.

Edit: Found it. It wasn't Brian who said it, but Ramos.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11081&p=137700&hilit=dokuwashi+prototype#p137700
ramos wrote:
Image

Super7 is proud to present the Dokuwashi Prototype!!

Cast in unpainted black vinyl from the first master mold, this
Dokuwashi will be unlike all future versions. All future Dokuwashi
releases will be sightly shorter and reflect minor changes to the mold,
making this all black version a true prototype!!
Author:  bryce_r [ Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nerd Taxonomy - What is a Proto?
gatchabert wrote:
What makes this bad is that there is sometimes no difference between the proto and the final. It's not like a piece of furniture where you can sometimes see the differences (like using a fatter bolt or a change in angle). The only time I'd call a toy a proto is if I'm 100% sure that it is what it is. Outside of that, it is just an unpainted toy.


Exactly. I think unfortunately nowadays though...anytime it a toy is not painted people just slap on the "PROTO" tag. It's gotten pretty absurd.
Author:  silver_lining_man [ Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nerd Taxonomy - What is a Proto?
bryce_r wrote:
gatchabert wrote:
What makes this bad is that there is sometimes no difference between the proto and the final. It's not like a piece of furniture where you can sometimes see the differences (like using a fatter bolt or a change in angle). The only time I'd call a toy a proto is if I'm 100% sure that it is what it is. Outside of that, it is just an unpainted toy.


Exactly. I think unfortunately nowadays though...anytime it a toy is not painted people just slap on the "PROTO" tag. It's gotten pretty absurd.


how many boba fett protos have shown up on ebay in the last few years? how many prototypes did kenner need?!
Author:  ---NT--- [ Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nerd Taxonomy - What is a Proto?
hellopike wrote:
Artist Proof

And "Artist Proof" is the artist equivalent to "Test Pull" for toys. Neither are prototypes, they're just copies not intended for sale.
Author:  Biff [ Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Nerd Taxonomy - What is a Proto?
Daimyo wrote:
Well aren't AP's supposed to be Proto's? Still, anymore it seems like a lot of AP's are just a few of the regular run given to the artist that may have one little HP detail or num/signed. Still though, a true AP is Proto status imo.


I am beginning to believe alot of 'artist proofs' lately are just part of the payment to the artist. The entity producing the toy gives the artist 'x' amount of the product to sell on his own. This allows the toy producer to not have to shell out as much precious (and often times missing) liquid cash for payment.
Author:  abelincolnjr [ Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Nerd Taxonomy - What is a Proto?
Biff wrote:
Daimyo wrote:
Well aren't AP's supposed to be Proto's? Still, anymore it seems like a lot of AP's are just a few of the regular run given to the artist that may have one little HP detail or num/signed. Still though, a true AP is Proto status imo.


I am beginning to believe alot of 'artist proofs' lately are just part of the payment to the artist. The entity producing the toy gives the artist 'x' amount of the product to sell on his own. This allows the toy producer to not have to shell out as much precious (and often times missing) liquid cash for payment.


Thats standard payment in the Western Game for platform toys. If its a platform you get toys as payment. If its an original design you get toys and royalties. From what I understand though, they arent really that financially rewarding. But better than nothing!
Author:  evom [ Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Nerd Taxonomy - What is a Proto?
So what would you call something that is strictly made for a group show of the same toy??
Author:  kichigai [ Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Nerd Taxonomy - What is a Proto?
prototypes rarely surface in the market place. its a misused word. prototypes can exist in several forms and almost never look the same as final product of anything be it toy, soap dish or other. working prototypes are usually the ones that surface or exchange hands. i have a UFP prototype that is missing half its limbs but is in reality complete because the limbs were different for different figures and so limbs themselves or pieces in general are prototyped to various degree. those familiar with mego planet of the apes figures from the 70s would know this, the prototypes of the apes were made from the model kits for early press releases in Warren mags etc. although i think the word factory sample may be more appropriate for those as they were only used to set the pace and give direction. a few years ago a member on here now gone tried to sell several folks a pushead black skullpirate prototype he claimed was gifted to him from pushead. these are the most dangerous types of prototypes because they are fake and folks who offer fake as real just plain suck. i have a 1st issue gi joe from 1964 that has a tiny head compared to later releases sometimes these have been refered to as prototypes and unless you research toy history one can be taken advatage of.

be careful with prototypes you might just spend all your money in vain.
Author:  Roger [ Sat Oct 23, 2010 6:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Nerd Taxonomy - What is a Proto?
I have more to contribute but don't have time now. Some more on hardcopies and first/test shots, though:

http://theswca.com/lexicon/hardcopy.html
http://theswca.com/lexicon/firstshot.html
Author:  Anti Social Andy [ Sat Oct 23, 2010 6:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Nerd Taxonomy - What is a Proto?
I have always agreed with kichigai's take on 'proto's . . . Having seen various Secret Base protos, they are a haphazzard mash up of components that don't match with new elements poured from random coloured vinyl that happened to be on the boil at the time.

Most of the 'Protos' floating around these days I'd simply consider as blanks or pre-production samples unless they were actually made available for public consumption, in which case they are simply unpainted releases.

In most instances toys with doodles fall into the 'toys spoilt' category . . . give me a clean item any day of the week, but that's just personal preference.
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