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Unpainted toys (or the value and rarity thereof)
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Author:  petitetoilonrouge [ Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Unpainted toys (or the value and rarity thereof)
I'm a big fan of unpainted toys. On some sculpts, I believe they bring out the beauty of the shape (Dokuwashis or Sleeping Killers, for example) or the beauty of the material (clear pink and clear blue vinyl... Yummy). On others, there's some painted elements I simply don't like (the eyes on the Power Misters or Greasebats aren't for me, for example).

Now, I've noticed a common trend: unpainted toys seem to always be at least as expensive as the painted versions. Retail unpainted versions routinely are the same price (recent examples include the yellow pocket Globby and chocolate Greasebats - the unpainted yellow Globby might actually have been more expensive than the painted version). It's worse on the resale market. A few examples: I paid 50$ for my Milk Chocolate Killer and 150$ for the unpainted. 25$ for my SDCC blue Dokuwashi and 60$ for the unpainted. I'm about to pay 100$ for an unpainted Krokus Killer, and I just saw a painted Krokus Sleeping + Pocket Killer set with print for 80$ here.

Now, while I love rambling, I actually have two points.

1) From a manufacturer's perspective, what's the value of a paint job? The toys we love are mostly hand-painted and hopefully some time has been devoted to the design of a colour pattern. Isn't it strange that that's not reflected in a higher price for painted toys? Are the painting costs so low they don't factor in in the end? Or am I missing something?

2) If the unpainted versions are more expensive because they're rarer (which seems to be the logic here), why not buy a painted version and strip it? I've been finding myself not wanting to do that just so I don't rid the world of one of a very limited series, but at the same time find it ridiculous to pay over twice the price of a toy for what it -doesn't- have (it's actually what pushed me to write this). Anyone else had that dilemma? Will someone please tell me not to think so much and go get a can of acetone?
Author:  Daimyo [ Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Unpainted toys (or the value and rarity thereof)
I have totally thought the same thing on both counts. I assume (not the best idea) that they keep the price the same to help offset business costs. With the run size I would imagine that they need to do quite a few releases before really making any money. The fact they can sell a blank for full price is probably a great help in this regard. I have really considered stripping a few toys but had the same reservations as you. I think I might if it was a large or made to order run that seemed to be well supported. I also worry that it won't strip down completely or retain the look of raw vinyl. I've heard reds can stain lighter color base vinyl. I'm sure someone else knows more about both these subject than I do, so hopefully someone can chime in more definitively.
Author:  il_muffino [ Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Unpainted toys (or the value and rarity thereof)
I think the rarity/scarcity of blank figures varies by manufacturer and even for a particular manufacturer, it may vary from release to release. If it's a blank figure that was a regular release, it's likely no more difficult to obtain than any other regular release of that same figure. An example of this would be the unpainted black version of Super7's Visighost. It was the first regular release of that figure and was easily obtainable at the store or from Super7's website. When I've seen this figure for sale, the price is usually reasonable and usually below retail.

Sometimes, a few figures from a regular release are left blank and are given by the manufacturer as gifts to friends and/or employees. As time goes by, these will make there way into the hands of other collectors via trade or sale. Other times, those blanks will make there way into collectors' hands via lucky bags. I know of some cases where as few as 3 blanks might exist of a particular figure in a particular color. I wouldn't be surprised if there are instances where only a single blank exists. This is when premium prices might be justified.

For the most part, blank figures are not put out as regular releases. There are a ton of M1 blanks out there, but I'll bet most, if not all, of them were only available in a lucky bag. That doens't mean they're rare in particular, but right off the bat, you know that they were not for sale in the usual manner. That is, you couldn't just order a single blank M1 Matango figure, you had to buy a whole lucky bag to get it.

In my experience, blank figures at retail are sometimes the same and sometimes less expensive. Why, I don't know. If I recall correctly, the first blank version of the pocket Mummy Boy was only $20, but the first painted versions were $22. I was told that the price bump was because it costs more to paint the figures. There have also been blank releases that were the same price as painted versions of the same figure, though, too. I always chalked that up to run size. One could argue that it's likely that the majority of collectors like their toys painted which means a smaller demand for unpainted toys and therefore smaller runs for unpainted releases. If this is the case, then the savings from not painting the toys is wiped out by the smaller run size and the price has to be the same as a painted toy. Since run numbers are not released, one can't say for sure, though.

Just a few of my thoughts on the matter.
Author:  hellopike [ Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Unpainted toys (or the value and rarity thereof)
I can't speak on pricing- every manufacturer prices their product however they see fit, I don't know what the costs involved are for everything. But that being said I have to agree with Muffino, for the most part blanks just aren't always as readily available as the painted versions so their prices may be higher/equal to the painted counterparts. But it's not that cut and dry.

T9G has put out several blank Rangeas as regular pieces, and as such they really aren't any more or less expensive then any other release. In fact I've seen fluctuations within the blanks- I find the blank yellow one shows up more often and usually less expensive then say the blank pink w/glitter or blank lobbby version.. It comes down to what people like more.

M1go- puts out a lot of blanks and some in much higher numbers then others. You can get a flesh Jet Jaguar blank pretty reasonably, but the painted versions are much harder (relatively speaking) to get and therefore more expensive.

Lulubell is doing the "Shooting Blanks" program right now, and the blanks are all less expensive then the painted retail versions. Will the figures there hold, rise or retain their value? Who knows. But if you like then get them!


But in the end it all comes down to what you like and what you are willing to pay which dictates the price of any of this. I see those blank Nagsnagnags and the prices they fetch, but the toy does nothing for me, so I will not pursue getting one.


As for stripping a figure... eh. Speaking as a person who has stripped more then a few figures for painting If you're cautious and lucky you might get a clean strip. More often then not you'll get telltale signs of some sort from the stripping process from cloudy vinyl, paint in crevasses, paint stains etc.. and then you're left with a piece that doesn't have a nice paintjob AND isn't really unpainted but merely stripped. I have really embraced blank figures but I wouldn't buy ans trip a figure just to have as a "blank"... I would know and it would be the same to me. But hey, they're your toys. Do what you like!

Phil
Author:  evom [ Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Unpainted toys (or the value and rarity thereof)
^^I don't like the idea of stripped toys at all. Unless you're planning on painting it. I feel like its putting frauds out there almost. because If you ever sold it, then it's the sellers responsibility to tell the person it's stripped and who knows if that guy would mention it to the next and then the next guy after that. I've never tried to strip a toy with caution but it's good that it's not very easy to make it look like it's not.
Author:  Vombie [ Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Unpainted toys (or the value and rarity thereof)
I still kind of cringe when I know a toy that was perfectly good was stripped for the sake of customizing.

I don't dig stripped stuff at all in regards to just having yourself a blank figure to admire the sculpt alone. As one SBer put it, "stripped isn't UNpainted". It seems a little more special to me (as a collector) to score an unpainted sculpt--especially if it's a nice color--and if it happens to be rare well that's a plus I guess (unless I lose it or have to sell it). If I think the sculpt is strong enough on it's own, I usually would appreciate an example of that. plus they just look great in the crowd.
Author:  animator [ Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Unpainted toys (or the value and rarity thereof)
Lots of good info and discussion coming out here. I collect a lot of unpainted toys specifically for admiring the sculpt. I also like putting a bunch of solid candy colored(or same colored) pieces together to really push their different shapes and textures. I think blanks do this a lot better than a painted version. I'll sometimes give toys I don't collect a chance because they're unpainted and they'll look good in that part of my collection. These are usually toys I've been debating buying anyway. For example, I picked up my 1st ooze bat this way and have't stopped buying them since, it's my favorite S7 sculpt now.

As for rarity, it doesn't really make a difference to me, if I like it I'll buy it. I've been lucky to get a lot of my unpainted stuff at retail and can't really justify the mark up on some. I think a lot of the stuff that's called a "proto", because it is 1 of few unpainted, is hype that many people are buying into. I've noticed that a lot of early/first releases are unpainted(nag, greasebat, Rangeas, Monster Family) and think the price jump on these is due to smaller runs that test the figures popularity, and the figure gaining a fan base later on so collectors want to get past releases.

I've also noticed that a lot of artists/customizers collect these unpainted toys, I find it kinda odd and interesting that they're drawn to these figures like I am.
Author:  silent killer [ Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Unpainted toys (or the value and rarity thereof)
EVOM wrote:
^^I don't like the idea of stripped toys at all. Unless you're planning on painting it. I feel like its putting frauds out there almost. because If you ever sold it, then it's the sellers responsibility to tell the person it's stripped and who knows if that guy would mention it to the next and then the next guy after that. I've never tried to strip a toy with caution but it's good that it's not very easy to make it look like it's not.

Do you feel the same way about customs though? I'm just curiouse. I don't exactly have strong feelings either way.
Author:  kikaiju [ Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Unpainted toys (or the value and rarity thereof)
proto are proto, unpainted are unpainted, you can stripped all figures you want, at the end you won't have a proto, just a stripped figure with cheap plastic trashed by acethone^^ clear grey gid mongolion is unpainted and cost 50 usd, proto jade mongolion never had a price because never been produced...... you just need to call a cat a cat^^
Author:  animator [ Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Unpainted toys (or the value and rarity thereof)
^ The terminology gets really confusing here and I don't think anyone will ever fully agree on it. Some people call a "proto" figure the first ever made, usually an unreleased version for the artist/designer/toy company to look at and say this looks good, let's move forward with producing it. Other people call a "proto" any unpainted, and unreleased, figure from a release that was painted(these are typically very few). Then you have all variations of released unpainted vinyl from regular releases to Lucky Bags. Last is stripped vinyl which I don't think anyone does unless it's to customize(although I own 1 piece the I question if it's been stripped).
Author:  kikaiju [ Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Unpainted toys (or the value and rarity thereof)
what can we say about test shots too.....
Author:  ultrakaiju [ Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Unpainted toys (or the value and rarity thereof)
D'oh! Just wrote a whole long rant about this, but I guess I most went into the electronic netherworld. Generally I echo all the thoughts already mentioned. Basically I will summarise it as this: unpainted figs are cool, and a great way to bring out the detail in a sculpt. I have a particular fetish for translucent vinyl, so there ya go. Initially I was put off by their unfinished feel, but sometimes they can rock (I am thinking of the Marmit Matango here). In other cases, particularly where pupils, hair, spots, etc add detail to the figure, not so much.

I think they should just be seen as quirks. If that's your thing, go for it; if not, plenty of others to choose from. I definitely think they shouldn't be priced at more than their painted counterparts (rarity aside). Unpainted M1s are generally available, lucky bag or not. And stripping any figure (particularly a great one) leaves a bad taste in my mouth, if not for the sole purpose of customisation, which, as has been pointed out, is not ideal anyhow. But the main point is this, the paint scheme is usually at least half of what makes a kaiju cool, hence sweet colorways, and I personally love to support artists themselves and respect the paint work they do.
Author:  gatchabert [ Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Unpainted toys (or the value and rarity thereof)
ultrakaiju wrote:
...And stripping any figure (particularly a great one) leaves a bad taste in my mouth, if not for the sole purpose of customization,...

Doing toys for a show like It Came From Skullbrain, and repainting a toy just to sell are two different things. Doing toys for a show is like being commissioned. There's just no choice but to strip a toy. But I'm going away from the topic at hand.

I actually have a fair amount of unpainted toys. Whenever I buy an unpainted off the BST, the seller always asks if I'm going to paint it. I almost never do. I love my unpainted toys and I'd rather sell them than paint them. I was really happy to open up an M1go lucky bag and find that all the toys are unpainted (and then I saw that damn seal monster. What a downer).
Author:  Joe [ Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Unpainted toys (or the value and rarity thereof)
Proto = test vinyl pulls to try out colors/new vinyl.
Unpainted = no paint. Can be released as a run or just some left blank.
Stripped = paint taken off because it was ugly or used to repaint.
See examples below.

Proto Red Stomp
(Only one that I know of. I might be wrong.)
Image

Unpainted Release Yellow Matango
(Common as compared to the Painted LB version.)
Image

Not Released Unpainted Green Rose Vampire
(Gift. Don't ask me for it.)
Image

Stripped Kozik GID Mutant Head
(Stripped for painting. Plus the paint job was whack. Sorry Jeremy/Hiro. :lol: )
Image
Author:  kurumonz [ Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Unpainted toys (or the value and rarity thereof)
To me, an unpainted kaiju is the testament of how strong the sculpt is. But the color of the unpainted does play a part.

So far, the weakest looking unpainted has to be GID, imo. The best looking ones have stronger or darker hues.

Plus the unpainted eyes always look menacing to me.
Author:  Daimyo [ Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Unpainted toys (or the value and rarity thereof)
A lot of good points. I must say that usually the desire to strip something comes from loving the base color. I don't want to fool anyone or myself into thinking I have something rare. It would just be nice to have a blank next to the painted. If an unpainted exists then it doesn't really cross my mind. It sounds like my concerns about the quality of the stripped piece were founded though and I'll leave any stripping to the painters... O god, picturing naked toy nerds on the pole at Spearmint Rhino is not pleasant.
Author:  evom [ Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Unpainted toys (or the value and rarity thereof)
silent killer wrote:
EVOM wrote:
^^I don't like the idea of stripped toys at all. Unless you're planning on painting it. I feel like its putting frauds out there almost. because If you ever sold it, then it's the sellers responsibility to tell the person it's stripped and who knows if that guy would mention it to the next and then the next guy after that. I've never tried to strip a toy with caution but it's good that it's not very easy to make it look like it's not.

Do you feel the same way about customs though? I'm just curiouse. I don't exactly have strong feelings either way.


not sure what you mean sientkiller ?? If you're asking if I care about someone stripping a custom, well that's their problem and it's pretty rude I guess but whatever, not many people would do that unless it's by a newcomer artist I suppose.

If you are asking what I think about stripping a toy for customizing, well I feel like it's not the worst thing to do but I should hope that the rarity of the release being stripped is somewhat low. Like for someone to strip a greenhell rv to paint is downright fucked up. but to paint over the sdcc'10 one that wasn't very popular isn't a big deal because they sit on bst for a while all the time.
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