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Toys & the environment
http://skullbrain.org/legacy/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=16676		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  GiLLy [ Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:57 am ]
Post subject:  Toys & the environment
Hey all,

Not trying to get all heavy (& i'm not a hippy btw :P) but...
I was just wondering what kind of effect our favorite hobby has on the environment? I'm honestly intrigued. I'm most certainly not suggesting that using plastic is bad, far from it but i've got no idea as to the process used etc. Is japanese vinyl produced in a different manner than in China/elsewhere? (more regulated?) If not, is there anything companies can do to make it a bit less arse on the planet?

Any thoughts?



(if this is in the wrong forum feel free to shift 'er)
Author:  abelincolnjr [ Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:27 am ]
Post subject: 
Kozik broke this down of a thread before
To encapsulate that thread:
1) Vinyl toys are BAAAAAD from an evnironmental standpoint
2) They don't make vinyl in the US cuz of of the damage it does to the environment.
3) There was a great eruption of self loathing on the board where everyone expressed that they felt horrible about vinyl's effects on the environment but in the end no one stopped collecting.
</snark>
Author:  Robert DeCastro [ Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:31 am ]
Post subject: 
abelincolnjr wrote:
Kozik broke this down of a thread before
To encapsulate that thread:
1) Vinyl toys are BAAAAAD from an evnironmental standpoint
2) They don't make vinyl in the US cuz of of the damage it does to the environment.
3) There was a great eruption of self loathing on the board where everyone expressed that they felt horrible about vinyl's effects on the environment but in the end no one stopped collecting.
</snark>


That last line is priceless. Another interesting thing I got from that thread was how alot of folks didn't care if the vinyl killed off brain cells etc and embraced it as part of the "hazzards" of collecting. Sorta like smoking LOL
Author:  BOB CONGE [ Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:11 am ]
Post subject: 
Option: Could URETHANE be the NEW VINYL ?

It is 1000 times more stable and environmentally friendly than vinyl and certainly capable of great detail. Even better, it can be produced in the US.

"Son of Sum" P-1
Image

"Son of Sum" P-1
Image
Author:  hamamaiku [ Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
That's why it's that much more painful when you see crappy vinyl toys; and there's only so much oil to go around.
Author:  GiLLy [ Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
BOB CONGE wrote:
Option: Could URETHANE be the NEW VINYL ?

It is 1000 times more stable and environmentally friendly than vinyl and certainly capable of great detail. Even better, it can be produced in the US.

"Son of Sum" P-1
Image

"Son of Sum" P-1
Image


How does urethane feel compared to vinyl ? Could the same effects be recreated? Is creating vinyl toys any worse than most stuff? or is it like BAD....
Author:  Autopsy [ Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
Vinyl is a plastic material, which unlike other plastics, can easily be recycled. Because of the durability of vinyl, products made from this material have a long life span. Add to this the fact that the vinyl can then be recycled, translates into an even longer life of the vinyl plastic resin.

Vinyl is a very environment friendly material, not only because it can be recycled, but also for many other reasons. Vinyl helps in the preservation of environmental resources as 57% of vinyl is made from common salt, which is a renewable natural substance. Non-replenish able resources such as crude oil only account for 43% of vinyl resin, thus making it nature friendly.

In comparison to various other materials used by the packing industry, vinyl requires lesser amounts of natural resources to make, utilizes much lesser energy for manufacture, and also releases lower emissions into the environment.

So if anyone is worried that their RxH, BxH, Cronic, and Rangeas' are poisoning the air that they breathe, please feel free to send them to autopsy........I'll even pay for shipping
Author:  Biff [ Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:11 am ]
Post subject: 
I vow to plant a seedling (of my own choosing) for every vinyl figure I obtain. I also vow to combat my own, personal offgassing.
Author:  GiLLy [ Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:18 am ]
Post subject: 
Biff wrote:
I vow to plant a seedling (of my own choosing) for every vinyl figure I obtain. I also vow to combat my own, personal offgassing.


Nice :)
Author:  meary [ Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:37 am ]
Post subject: 
Autopsy wrote:
Vinyl is a plastic material, which unlike other plastics, can easily be recycled. Because of the durability of vinyl, products made from this material have a long life span. Add to this the fact that the vinyl can then be recycled, translates into an even longer life of the vinyl plastic resin.

Vinyl is a very environment friendly material, not only because it can be recycled, but also for many other reasons. Vinyl helps in the preservation of environmental resources as 57% of vinyl is made from common salt, which is a renewable natural substance. Non-replenish able resources such as crude oil only account for 43% of vinyl resin, thus making it nature friendly.

In comparison to various other materials used by the packing industry, vinyl requires lesser amounts of natural resources to make, utilizes much lesser energy for manufacture, and also releases lower emissions into the environment.

So if anyone is worried that their RxH, BxH, Cronic, and Rangeas' are poisoning the air that they breathe, please feel free to send them to autopsy........I'll even pay for shipping


You're being payed off by the vinyl industry aren't you. :wink: For anyone interested theres a documentary on the subject called Blue Vinyl, I didn't find it very interesting or convincing though. Basically it was claiming that vinyl is terrible for the workers who produce it.
Author:  abelincolnjr [ Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:10 am ]
Post subject: 
Here's part of what Frank broke down:

Frank Kozik wrote:
pickleloaf wrote:
Frank Kozik wrote:
yes, pollution. your beloved Japanese Grade vinyls and paint are HIGHLY polluting and extremely toxic in their primary states.

Thats why its basically an obsolete technology.


shit so i could be helping to give some poor japanese kid liver cancer from eating contaminated fish or something

do they have proper cleaning/disposal techniques for the waste material or do they just not care?

are there no suitable alternatives?



1. My experience is that Japan is highly polluted.

2. no 'acceptable' alternate materials exist. Vinyl is vinyl. it has that lustrous feel because it is in effect 'alive'..that means its constantly outgassing. Long molecular chains...the longer a molecule, the more unstable, especiallly when the solvents outgas and UV hits it. thats why it degrades. Now, you cant destroy or create matter, only transmute, so when the molecules in vinyl 'fall apart' they enter the biosphere, and, those molecules are toxic.

you CAn make toys out of ABS ( hard plastic) but they do not feel the same, are way more expensive to manufacture, and the few companies that try it meet extreme resistance because 'collectors' dont like it.

ABS wil take longer to degrade, but degrade it will.\\\the nicer and silkier the vinyl...the more solvents.

the solvents are basically carbonhexa or tetra chloride ( like drycleaning fluid)

the solvents are the primary polluters.

thats why theres almost no more rotocast on any level in any countries with pollution laws.


Search for Environment on the board, theres a thread on crappy QC that has all the facts. No matter how you slice it there ain't nothin' "Green" about PCB's and toxic solvents

http://www.skullbrain.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=13923&highlight=environment
Author:  hillsy11 [ Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:56 am ]
Post subject: 
Mmmmm....plasticizers...
Author:  pickleloaf [ Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:04 am ]
Post subject: 
Autopsy wrote:
Vinyl is a plastic material, which unlike other plastics, can easily be recycled. Because of the durability of vinyl, products made from this material have a long life span. Add to this the fact that the vinyl can then be recycled, translates into an even longer life of the vinyl plastic resin.

Vinyl is a very environment friendly material, not only because it can be recycled, but also for many other reasons. Vinyl helps in the preservation of environmental resources as 57% of vinyl is made from common salt, which is a renewable natural substance. Non-replenish able resources such as crude oil only account for 43% of vinyl resin, thus making it nature friendly.

In comparison to various other materials used by the packing industry, vinyl requires lesser amounts of natural resources to make, utilizes much lesser energy for manufacture, and also releases lower emissions into the environment.


where did you get this info? a vinyl lobbyist?
Author:  Roger [ Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:46 am ]
Post subject: 
Here's the brief discussion about the Blue Vinyl documentary:

http://www.skullbrain.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=14969
Author:  GiLLy [ Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:47 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for the link abe. I did actually attempt to search for a similar "environment" thread before i posted but got nuthin :?
Author:  Count [ Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:15 am ]
Post subject: 
I want to hear Bwana's 2 cents on this, he seems like the earth loving hippy type, AND HE MAKES TOYS!!!!

:shock:
Author:  GiLLy [ Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
Count wrote:
I want to hear Bwana's 2 cents on this, he seems like the earth loving hippy type, AND HE MAKES TOYS!!!!

:shock:


In the other thread he says:

Fig Belly wrote:
This is one of the best threads ever and close to the heart, esp focusing on the earlier bits. I can't express how hard it is to get something quality made, no matter how much money, time, and love, you put into the project. So much shit is just out of our hands. Great thread eh. And the telephone game quote from mark nagata really sums it all up I think for most of us- "I choose to live with the risk of having vinyl in my household because my love of the toys outweighs my worries.". Same goes for getting them manufactured. My love for toys and character design outweighs the pain I feel about more plastic on the earth. Just a few days ago i found my clutch of rejection letters from toy agents from back in '92 when we didn't really have the knowledge and knowhow to make stuff DIY and all start our own little companies. Now moving forward I just try to make things peeple will want to keep, and hopefully soon make some stuff where at least the packaging is made from recycled materials.
i heart toys.


Bwana is really pretty awesome & from the sounds of things is basically on the same page as i am. As with anything to do with our daily lives, i guess the best we can do is try to make a change where we can. There are often viable alternatives and steps that can be taken toward bettering most shit. Awareness is important, and often upsetting, but without it we would never bother to change the way anything is done. It's a fuckin tough one though...
Author:  miami [ Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
If even the 500 people who've read this thread would put in a few compact fluorescent bulbs, keep their tires inflated and go easy on the gas pedal for a few months, it'd likely save 10X more oil and pollution than there is in all the toys they own. The amount of oil used for vinyl manufacturing is impossibly tiny, compared to what we simply burn. I am all for awareness of what we use, but there's no call for false guilt - our toys just aren't part of the problem in any real way.

CC
Author:  joshuajh [ Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:23 am ]
Post subject: 
im not an expert in this area, but i would guess that there is a much larger negative environmental impact from shipping toys than making them.

that said, even if vinyl is a 'better' plastic, its still plastic, and petroleum based products are non-renewable. i agree that the impact is tiny compared to nearly everything else we do and use, but lets not kid ourselves and call these toys environmentally friendly. they do have an impact, but miami is right, there are so so many other thngs we do and use that have a greater impact, and can be easily changed. how about carrying a re-usable shopping bag around instead of using plastic?

im a pretty big hippy deep down somewhere, and collecting plastic bugs me out a bit, but my concern for that is ranked below a lot of other things, like not using products tested on animals, not supporting sweatshop labor, etc, etc, etc.
Author:  turtletooth [ Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:34 am ]
Post subject: 
joshuajh wrote:
im a pretty big hippy deep down somewhere, and collecting plastic bugs me out a bit, but my concern for that is ranked below a lot of other things, like not using products tested on animals, not supporting sweatshop labor, etc, etc, etc.

I wish my toys were made in a sweatshop by animals. Preferably endangered species.

Just kidding, but seriously, I think that the overall impact of this hobby is most likely pretty small.

That's a good point about the shipping of products having a larger negative effect than the products themselves. We used to have an amazing rail system in this country that efficiently transported products from coast to coast. Until it was bought up and destroyed by the oil companies and the companies that manufacture trucks.

If anyone is looking for something to get worked up over look into that.
Author:  missy [ Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
abelincolnjr wrote:
Kozik broke this down of a thread before
To encapsulate that thread:
1) Vinyl toys are BAAAAAD from an evnironmental standpoint
2) They don't make vinyl in the US cuz of of the damage it does to the environment.
3) There was a great eruption of self loathing on the board where everyone expressed that they felt horrible about vinyl's effects on the environment but in the end no one stopped collecting.
</snark>



interesting to then watch his interview in toypunks where he claims that collecting toys doesn't harm anyone "there's not some villager in Indonesia who can't eat" or some similar malarkey.

I know this hobby isn't environmentally sound. Hell, obsessive buying of ANYTHING is not environmentally sound, but I do try to compensate in other areas of my life (i don't own a car, I don't eat meat, I avoid large chains & fast food & other bad for the earth places), i turn the water off & recycle.

toys are my downfall though.
Author:  hamamaiku [ Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
Maybe not directly related, but interesting:
http://www.storyofstuff.com/
Author:  JAY [ Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
A few months ago, there was a metro-wide pull out of commercial toys from the departments stores here in Manila---for "high lead content" in toys.

Chemists say when induce or exposed to lead (usually high level of lead found in applied paint on toys) , it may cause serious health problems.

Questions:

Commercial toys contain more lead? Or soft vinyl?

Could the risk be higher if these toys are kept in an enclosed display case or open shelving system?
Author:  GiLLy [ Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
hamamaiku wrote:
Maybe not directly related, but interesting:
http://www.storyofstuff.com/



I recommend watching this too - it's pretty well put together.
Author:  playdohpunk [ Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
meary wrote:
For anyone interested theres a documentary on the subject called Blue Vinyl, I didn't find it very interesting or convincing though. Basically it was claiming that vinyl is terrible for the workers who produce it.


Basically that is correct. from what i understand from having worked with glass beads a good portion of my life.....it's nott hat it's so bad for the enviroment, it's that the chemicals used to produce the various finishes and paints are going to kill the workers. that's why no glass beads are made here in the USA....by extension, a lot of the japanese vinyl effects you see are the same as those ussed on glass beads. The enviroment is not what's at danger, it's the worker who produces these. They have a much shorter life span.
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