visually impressive in an 'oh wow, they can do that now' kind of way. so many talented people working on such a large project, i found impressive, independent of the content. the creation of visual effects like these require the time and maybe love of many artists, both digital and traditional, not just people coding. as a whole though, i wasnt into it. why are cgi games more impressive than cgi movies? its not like a team of artists is working to generate the changing environment while you play. still a pre-made program, just as fake.
I thought about how this could be the response after I posted, which isn't what I meant. I know it takes a lot of artists and others a lot of time for the project, but cgi films just make me feel "cheated" for any reality left in story telling. The difference for a video game for me was the whole "wow software has reached the point where it can do that" so its kind of the same thing as you felt in the movie, where as in the movie it just leaves me feeling cold and removed from humanity even further. So far 3d films have left me unimpressed and feeling overcharged.
You ain't kidding. The hours we put in on the last 6 months on this film were back-breaking. Every CGI film, or just this one? You don't get any emotional response from, say, Toy Story 2 or The Incredibles? Both are great stories told with great artistry. (Although The Incredibles is by far my favorite Pixar film, I've always felt Toy Story 2 to be the most emotionally true.) I wanted to ignore this comment--I really did--but it lit me up pretty good. Do you have any concept on how VFX or 3D animation work is actually done? You write about the 'coding' as though there's some magic 'make pretty pictures' button we press that makes the digital devil box just shit out imagery. Yes, we work on computers. Yes, the software and tools we use were coded. They're still just tools, no different from brushes, pens, chisels, or acrylics. They're completely fucking worthless unless you've got a vision and the skill to make that vision a reality. Incidentally, virtually every piece of 2D animation created for either the big screen or TV in the last 10+ years was done on a computer. Does that disqualify it as coding? -- jJ
Saw Avatar (3D) for the 2nd time today with my Father. He was blown away. It was great to kick back and take in the things i missed the first time round. Zoë Saldana's portrayal of Neytiri is stunning. Every expression that comes across her face feels so true to life. I only just realized she was the actress who played Uhura in the recent Star Trek. Nice one jJ working on Avatar! You should be very proud of what you all accomplished. What was your part in the making of the movie? Looking forward to the Blu-Ray release. Can't wait to see how it was made.
Right seen it finally. I can't add much to what has already been said, but I'll go ahead and try anyway First, the script is appalling. Like terribly clichéd with every single cookie cutter line dropped in. The Colonel steals the show for being a complete stereotype. Especially, and possibly one of my favourite movie moments ever - He flies into battle with a cup of coffee, he's my hero. Yes, the visual elements of the film are astounding. But that is an oversimplification. It is not just the all enveloping nature of the film, but down to the finest detail, the most subtle bits that I don't even think you notice that put this on a whole new level. This really isn't "just cgi" the interaction between the humans and the computer elements is seamless. You fall into Pandora and it's all there, real, no questions asked. Mind you you have to put aside certain scientific laws and force yourself to not see Pandora as some weird uncharted part of Africa, which does sort of send the film into the realms of slightly racist at times, but I don't regret paying £22 to see it. I would like a couple of the naysayers to go see it, I think people are often to quick to jump on the sceptic's grumpy old man band wagon. My only complaint was that I wish they hadn't shown the Alice in Wonderland 3D trailer before hand as that is very jump out of the screen duck and dive, where as Avatar isn't, it's much more content to just bring you in, it almost never leaves the screen.
I think I might be getting free or half off tix or something so I might give it a go. Why? Because I can't fathom the concept of "The story is terrible, the acting is mild BUT THE EXPERIENCE?@!?@@@" That. I don't "get" that. What experience? One of seeing really killer visuals? I had that experience when I saw T2 and THAT was the new "thing." And when I saw Jurassic Park and THAT was the new thing. And LOTR when THAT was the next thing. And so on. I've had that experience. You walk in, new effects are stunning, you go "wow" and leave. BUT usually the stories are pretty good or AT LEAST ok. Not, as I've been hearing, "cringe worthy." It seems to me it really will make the movie to me. I'm a story guy, not a visuals guy. I appreciate the effects, they're cool, I respect and love them BUT they NEED a story and acting. Otherwise, yeah, I'll just stick to game cinematics. Anyway, I'll give it the shot if cheap/free, but it's just to really see if it's an "experience" or if I'm just not the type wowed by visuals alone.
I think that the story/plot is fine, it's pretty basic, but a natural kind of plot for a sci fi alien human interaction film. It's the script. The script is shit. The acting wasn't terrible either. Though the lead did slip in and out of his Australian accent at times. This isn't like those other films, they were bringing new effects to the table, I wouldn't call any of them an experience. This is unlike any other film, you cannot compare it to anything. This isn't just hordes of orcs or dinosaurs prancing about, it's not lumps of molten metal morphing, this is an entire world you walk into.... when your not laughing at the dialogue.
Well I'll see. I still don't understand these words, this concept is just so beyond me I guess. I can't imagine being brought into another world more so than I have with say video games, where there's an interactive role. I think a lot of the waryness is granted, I mean, I still can't even guess at what you or anyone means by "experience." I feel like I'm gonna walk in and the things on screen are going to come out to my seat and give me a hand job or something. Anyway, my full rant about how you've all been fooled by pretty colors OR how big of an idiot I was for hating on this because it's an "experience" after I see it. I gurantee, it'll be one or the other I gotta say I'm intrigued by the hype, just not enough to spend money.
As an Australian I apologise on behalf of all of us for Sam Worthington's mumbly mixed accent dialogue.
I liked that the cinematography was immersive but not showy. Sure, there were many shots lifted from Aliens, The Abyss, and Dances with Wolves, however nothing was so extreme as for me to lose my suspension of disbelief. With 500 million bucks invested, I'm not at all surprised the story was "reminiscent" of Dances with Wolves or the Last Samurai. Pixar does it with every movie, ie- Seven Samurai with A Bug's Life, Watchmen with The Incredibles, Wild Strawberries and Up, etc. With so much cash invested in the technology of a film, why not take a story that you KNOW will work. And though there were many illogical moments and some stilited dialogue, oftentimes in real life people act illogically and regularly speak in cliches. The editing was also superb. So many Die Hard like moments where the characters hear or see cues off screen, only to look over in a first person perspective to unveil the next shot. This tells me the director was tremendously active during the post-production which is always nice. As a nice guilty pleasure of High Concept filmaking, Avatar ranks up there with the best of them.
Or those of you hemming and hawing about "I don't know if I should see it, I don't understand why people are enjoying it..." etc., just see the movie already, you hobos. It's not like you don't spend hundreds of dollars on vinyls or the three hours spent is going to delay your research for the cure for cancer. Just go already, this is one worth seeing on the big screen.
The reason I can't afford movies is because of these friggin toys! $10 is a lot to gamble if I assume I'm going to be bored by a script for 3 hours. That's why I weasled a freebie
I appreciate jetJagger's defense of the computer graphics medium. There's a gross misconception out there that this stuff is easy, but it's not at all easy to do it well. You don't go to "Avatar" to see "Citizen Kane," ya know? I love deep, serious intense international cinema and can be a totally boring intellectual pedant about it but know well enough to turn off that part of my brain and just enjoy entertainment for its own sake sometimes. That's the better part of what cinema was until the end of WWII, and while I love the auteur movement and lament its demise, sometimes grand populist spectacle has its place. What plot and theme are there are very clichéd and predictable indeed, but this is old-fashioned Hollywood spectacle of a sort that has become increasingly rare, and rarely works when attempted any more. In my opinion the formulaic elements didn't disserve the production but rather made the scope and sensory overload of the visuals a little easier to contend with, in a good way. Cameron and crew managed to pull the mixture of "ideas" and "entertainment" off well. The movie has a good heart and is delicious eye candy. It succeeds on exactly the broad and visceral level it intended to. If ya wanna rap about Godard and Von Trier and Herzog we can do that, but it's a completely different discussion.
Well, the issue I have with most CGI is that the "evidence of the hand" is pretty much never clear or obvious. Someone indeed has to do the work, but in the end the sheen of CGI tends to wash away the human element unless the CGI is done in a way that allows a personality to shine through. I mean, look Ray Harryhausen's work. That Skeleton fight from Jason and the Argonauts is still awesome and enthralling. Put that up against most CGI work and it wins!
Lets conquer Pandora straight after breakfast and be back at the compound for lunch. "First round is on me when we get back"
I never meant this to be an attack on the work that goes into the films, more on the "its ok to be a horrible script and pretty lame movie because it just is a amazing." Pixar films (minus cars) are some of my favorites and I felt Wall-E took storytelling visually to new heights. I appreciate the actual responses to my question as opposed to just being told to see it, or that I've prejudged it (I have, but I'm sorry the more I hear the less desire I have to ever see this.) overall its the same as it every was, not really possible to disagree in cyberland, just to have opinions thrown back and forth.
Best review I've read of this movie; No spoilers, as if you can't guess what's going to happen in the first 10mins you must be retarted. Anyway, so Earth - but mostly Amerikuh - has found a planet called Iraq and wants the delicious oil under it's surface. So some Scientists, the military, and the Coka-Cola corporation are sent to tell the Indians to GTFO. Enter this marine who's upper part is John McClane and lower half is Stephen Hawking. He's sent their because his brother was actually useful and has been killed or something making our main guy the next best thing. The scientists, being the pussies that they are, wish to use a program called Second Life in order to ask the Indians to move from the land they've inhabited for generations because the alternative is having the military pwn them all and their sacred electric trees. Main guy is told by an aging Duke Nukem, who's the main bad guy and military badass of the movie, that if he relocates the Indians he'll be given new legs to up his status as John McClane from 50% to max. John's on board for the most part and hooks up to his Giant Blue thing which looks like the aliens and heads out with some I FART A LOT and her fanboy to go negotiate the fuck out of these Indian bastards. Once he fucks up their science he makes your standard giant cliff dive that would kill most people into a body of water. He's left to die for being a stupid fuck and has to fight a bunch of dog/slug things. He get his ass kicked before some blue I FART A LOT rescues him because he has a big heart/penis. Turns out the aliens are some sort of hybrid of cat, human, and usb cords that they attach to everything like cars keys to make them go. He's taken back to the tribe where he doesn't get brutally slaughtered due to his status as warrior instead of the mages the Indians are used to. He begins to learn the ways of the people from the only hot blue chick and pretty much has a montage without music. Things are going well enough and it's clear that John has a blue stiffy for the female lead and starts to like the people despite the fact that they all hate him. He learns to ride horse/bird things but fails at it because he didn't learn Epona's Song as a child. They decide flying will be his thing and has him wrastle one of these giant bird things in order to create bond with it. After docking usb dicks with the bird it turns out that he doesn't completely blow at flying so he's accepted by the tribe. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Duke Nukem Sr. isn't happy with how long peace takes and wants to blow shit up. He orders giant bulldozers to clear the rain forest while John is busy having tentacle sex with his blue I FART A LOT. John smashes the dozer's web cam in order to stop it and gets caught my the military. While being interrogated it is revealed that in one of John's camwhore sessions he let slip that the blue people most likely wouldn't be cool with abandoning the place they've resided in for generations (what a shock). John attempts to get the people out before Nukem nukes 'em but is considered a traitor by so many people that he's irrelevant and just get his ass tied up. The military decides to hit the big "fuck it" button and attacks the giant tree which covers the delicious oil killing thousands of blue people. Nukem cancels John's account with the blue people and his character collapses while he's giving an important speech, leading the Indians to believe he suffers from narcolepsy or is a fake. John is jailed by the military for obvious reasons along with the bitchy scientist and her fanboy but is soon busted out by a Mexican pilot so that they escape. Nukem pwns the scientist that needed to get back to the kitchen and leaves her in desperate need for medical help. In order to have the blue people help her John docks with some giant red bird thing and brings it to the blue people. This is apparently a big deal as the Indians keep their distance from him like he has swine flu. He asks for their help with the scientist I FART A LOT and they attempt to permanently turn her into a blue person through some Deus Ex Machina BS. This fails and she dies, ha! John asks some blue guy who would probably be black on Earth to translate his big important speech that details how they need to stand up to the invading colonists and fight. The Blue people go for what John says and they get a whole bunch more Indians to help in the war effort. John goes to a tree and attaches his tentacles to it in order to tell the world to prepare for the bad guys, the blue girl that wants his tentacles tells his that it won't work and that he looks stupid but we know it did as an audience otherwise this scene was fucking pointless. They go to war. Shit blows up, people die. The blue people gain the advantage despite using bows and arrows against machine guns and nukes and Duke sets off in his robo walker to finish teh job. Duke confronts John's I FART A LOT and nearly kills her (go Duke!) but is stopped by John. Duke asks what happened to him and John just hisses at him proving how much of a furry he's become. They fight and Duke get's deaded. John wakes up and is about to die due to lack of oxygen but is saved by his I FART A LOT. The two share the generic "look into my eyes" moment before they change scenes. So the blue people kick the Earthlings out on their ass and decide to keep some of the non cool ones. John is among them but in his Avatar body. The title screen comes up. The movie ends.
I have yet to see this film as I'm not buying into all of the hype. But my question for those who have seen it or followed it, how is it groundbreaking? Hasn't computer-based character animation been done before? Final Fantasy, Resident Evil etc? How is this different? Just curious...
The CG is evolution, not revolution. (It is very good, though. Not seamless, but very good.) Weta worked on it, so I believe the characters are CG over live actors for the most part (like Golem & King Kong). And if you are going to see it, see it IMAX for all the tiny details. All the Best Picture of the Year talk is bullshit, though. It's really more of a ride than anything else, but I am glad I did it.
The groundbreaking aspect is 1) the level of detail that the animators worked into the models and how they breathed life into the designs, and 2) the integration between the live action and CGI elements. When I saw Star Wars Episode 1 ten years ago, story aside, I was walking out of there thinking, "Wow, how are they going to make things look more realistic than this?" In the next few years the Lord of the Rings raised the bar in terms of volume and quality but it wasn't a total immersion experience like this. I strongly recommend seeing it in the theaters to see what I'm talking about, because I doubt watching it on a TV or computer screen will really do the visual aspects of the film justice. I'll be seeing it a second time this weekend just to watch all of the stuff on the sides of the screen. And as has been discussed here before, the plot and story are nothing unexpected, but it hits all the right notes adequately. It's what you should expect from a PG-13 movie with fast food kids' meal promotions behind it.
Not sure I follow your meaning. Do you mean that you think they were rotoscoped over live footage? -- jJ
