Punk is part of "pop" music? I'm confused...I don't think we are talking about the same genre, that's the problem with overuse of the word "punk" i guess. Anyways, back to the Beastie Boys they are old...and licensed to ill makes me smile when I hear it.
Punk is part of pop culture. It's also part of pop music. Tell me the Ramones aren't a pop band! They WANTED to be on the radio, they emulated 60's girl groups (pop music) 50's rock (pop music) 60's garage rock (pop music.) Their image, pop-art. Verse-Chorus-Verse-Chorus-Bridge-Verse-Chorus = Pop music. All punk did was take pop music, speed it up, make it angrier (only in some instances) and lowered the production level. It's still pop at it's core. I think your scope of what is pop music is narrow (I'm not insulting you or saying your dumb, the way that's written I guess can come off that way.) I'm just saying our definitions of what that phrase means is different, and that's where we're confusing/losing one another. To say punk is not a part of it is to ignore so much, not just what it became, but where it came from. If you think I'm connecting it to say, Britney, Avril or something along that line, I'm not (though, again, they come from the same place in a sense. I just don't have the energy to draw the lines here in this post.) But The Ramones, NY Dolls, Buzzcocks, Dickies, Misfits, all pop music. It's just the content is different on the surface, but not totally once you look beneath it (love, loss, hate, frustration, fun.) Now HARDCORE (not talking about crap like Hatebreed etc.), an offspring of the original punk movement, is a bit less pop. But it DOES have some things in common. (Dead Kennedys and Misfits song break downs and hooks are 100% pop music.) Just because it's sped up with less chords doesn't make it THAT much different. Almost all music is pop music now (and has been since around the 60's). Most don't even realize it, it hides itself, but it doesn't change what it REALLY is. There's also a big thing to look at the words "pop music" as a shameful thing. It's not, some of the best music ever came from pop. Phil Specter, The Ramones, Beach Boys. It's NOT just re-circulated crap, not all of it at least. Punk is pop. Pop is almost everything. I guess the best way to ultimately describe what "Pop" is is to take part Blues part Jazz, simplify it all to the brain level of an infant, add the excitement and energy and passion of a 12 year old and shake it all up. Sorry again, seriously, if I could express myself further on the subject and NOT take up the entire thread I would, it's a fascinating subject and once you start recognizing the patterns, musical themes, similarities in song construction and history of it all, it all links together in ways you might have NEVER realized.
Gotta agree with ya, BD. Well said! I think when it comes to music people take "pop" to mean "bubble gum"...or "soda pop", and forget that it actually means popular and is part of the "pop culture" continuum which is so broad and diverse and contains some of the most fantastic things of the past 60+ years.
Ramones pop, i guess they were "mainstream" in comparison to other punk bands, the clash too yes. Sex Pistols, while I don't consider them punk are pop...i would consider the Sex Pistols a TRUE pop band like N sync and the rest...they were created by a manager with a certain image in mind. I am talking as a punk rocker here, not as a music history buff. Calling the misfits pop is a HUGE stretch. They have some "whoa's" but are not pop. Has their logo achieved pop icon status yes..their music however is not "pop music". Pop stems from popular, what is your definition of "popular music"? The Dead Kennedys? Please tell me this was a joke, they are as much "pop" as they are NON political, lol. Had punk rock and politics not married, we would never been given the freakish child that the DK were...please remember this band was found guilty of random indecency charges, and WELL hated by the "mainstream". "Pop music" bands are not found guilty of indecency; pop bands have logos to warn when they say "bad words" and "clean" versions of their records are sold.
If "pop" implies as it originally did, "popular music" (as opposed to classical, sacred, national/folk or other musical forms not generally specified as "popular") then punk absolutely falls under the "pop" label. However, as common categorizations go these days, "pop" tends to imply lighter, less intense streams of musical energy than what punk represents. For my part, I think of punk as punk, a subset of rock or rock'n'roll. For me, "pop" implies many things from WWII era standards like songs by The Andrews Sisters or Bing Crosby to "bubblegum" popular music of the 60s and 70s. Pop today connotes the most commercial end of popular musics, be they Michael Buble, the boy bands, Britney, etc., but certainly not current punk or hardcore acts. Context is everything.
To me, it still sounds like pop, just with different lyrical content, and lyrics don't define on their own. If I'm insulting you, seriously, I'm sorry. It's tougher to describe all I mean on the computer in a thread that's not even about this subject. But you're not changing my opinion, I'm not changing yours, and we'll just have to take that as it is. PS- All people reading this thread looking to talk about the main subject, SUPER SORRY. I'll stop.
I only skimmed this thread as I'd rather not get all pissy... 1. Paul's boutique is a fucking flawless album. 2. Johnny Ramone was the BEST Ramone. 3. The new Fucked up Album rules (this has nothing to do with this thread but listening to it now)
the beastie boys used to be a punk band, but now they are a pop act...an old one; but a pop act. Am I the only one that liked some of 5 Burroughs?
I liked some of the stuff on To the 5 Boroughs but it all seemed a tad forced. But the video for "Check It Out" is hilarious!
