I agree, but having been to mandarake in Tokyo the Kaiju is really just a few feet away from the hentai rape manga.
Refuse all you like; it won't change outside perception. Don't confuse the meaning of "otaku" here in the U.S. with the meaning in Japan (where Matt was writing from). In Japan, "otaku" is an obsessed enthusiast of ANY hobby (and with the kind of money dropped on these toys and the lines people wait in, just try and deny people are obsessed), whereas in the U.S. it is applied to anime.
I found the comparisons to BAPE and in turn, the "Hoodie Kids" that everyone rails against, very insightful... I think its the same beef Punk kids from the old days had with New Wavers. In retrospect, they're not that different though are they?
personally I collect objects which let me construct, and then enter a fantasy world that stimulates my inner self. I agree it should be balanced with real life. The guy that wrote that just comes off as a douche.
Absolutely. Same with prior generations of "Stones people vs. Beatles people." I remember being at an early PiL concert where a woman said to me "I thought punks hated post-punk, what are they doing here?" LOL Sorry hon, the scenes weren't that dichotomized. Nevertheless, SB people are better than KR people ... nyah! Pickle, nice Warsaw (JD?) manip. Wow Frank, that's one of the most succinctly insightful things I've ever read about the hobby.
I like grumpy old vintage collectors. Your right the 1st issues of S7 is great so are most of the subsequent issues. In fact a few articles about vintage toys have inspired me to start searching them out I think I come off as more flippant than grumpy. I assume you are trying to invoke a real response out of me so he it goes. The author use the term Urban Vinyl, language not used by the people who collect the toys he is talking about. In fact most people who colelct these toys would be some what offended by this language. I have to assume the author didn't take the time to learn the correct terminology or it is a deliberate attempt to blur the lines between companies like RealxHead and KidRobot since this blurring sets you up for the Babe comparison later in the article. Next he uses a "eye witness account" but doesn't really understand his source. I consider Mark a friend but he is also my favorite toy dealer in Japan. Using Mark as a proxy for the average toy fan in Japan is misleading in many ways. Why not just throw a good quote from Masato in the article too. I think the other 1st hand account is from a tourist who by definition can't represent Tokyo toy collectors. The article brings up Mark's thread but does not deal with all the information in it. Apparently toys were also sold through the gargamel web site which does not directly sell to people outside of Japan. Finally these items were also available at other toy stores in Japan like Kaiju Taro and Charatics (in Osaka). Basically the author has missed the story. The simple truth is the overwhelming majority of collectors of these products live outside of Japan. So economics force them to sell their products through non-japanese distribution channels. When they don't do this you see greater and faster price inflation in the secondary market. The front of the line of most toy events in Japan is made up of dealers not fans. The Babe comparison is just lazy and shows a lack of understanding of both markets. Anyone who has participated in these communities would have to admit there is not much overlap even though the demographics might look similar on paper. The guys in Coke's marketing department probably don't distinguish between punk rock and disco either. Basically this author seems to have had an existing point of view and choose to report on only the evidence he found to support this point of view. There is an interesting story to be told about the Japanese toy movement but I think it will take an unbiased approach to tell it well.
That's just it...to you and this bbs, it's "japanese vinyl", but to most others, it's "urban vinyl". I just don't understand how someone takes offense at that. It's like someone looking at my "chogokin" and saying "look...Transformers". That's what it looks like to non-collectors. Do I take offense or show hostility? No...you inform. You folks try so damn hard to differentiate yourselves from places like KR (which the author never even mentions), but the only people who care about the difference is on this board. Like Matt said...a sub-genre of a sub-genre. Methinks you doth protest too much.
Exactly, the author of this article is a collector so I have to assume the use of "urban vinyl" is intentionally derogatory or he didn't do much research. Either way it is bad writing.
The term "urban vinyl" has been misused since the beginning. I don't see a huge difference between Bape and something like BxH anyway. They're both just expensive clothes for rich Japanese kids who want to imitate a western subculture.
I read a blog where it said that arguing about blogs on forums inevitably shapes the world's perception of the blog's subject. WHAT'S WITH THAT!?!?!
Only because it offended your senses. Just because you don't agree with it, doesn't mean it's wrong. If I'm writing to convey a message to people beyond this little universe, I'd probably use "urban vinyl" or "boutique vinyl" to describe it, too. He's stated numerous times in his responses his remarks weren't meant as disparaging. People seem to be taking great offense to them, though.
AHA! Methinks a chink in the armor is exposed. Although I love what they do, there is a certain hypocrisy in calling something "Punk" (in the early 80's hardcore sense at least) and then selling t-shirts for 60 bucks. Or toys for more than that. I certainly agree that they are artists who deserve to be compensated for their excellent work, but punk in a "Black Flag" sense? Not really. If a Western punk band sold t-shirts for $60 (or even had a fashion line) they'd be laughed at as posers.
Really, you'd use the term "urban vinyl?" Not saying I'm taking anyones sides, and I don't wanna get in the middle of this but that confuses most people I know MORE. I use 2 terms, for the not-in-the-know-but-still-down-with-some-weird-stuff folsk I'll say "Kaiju", that's enough. They know I mean weird Japanese monsters and such. TO people-totally-out-of-touch-with-anything (like ym mom) I say "Godzilla-Like Monsters" which I guess bastardizes it more, but the idea is put across better. Monsters, generally the city crushing type, but in the end all with generally violent and action packed back stories. "Urban Vinyl" would just make people I know think I collect Western stuff or Rap 12" LP's.
to me 'urban vinyl' pertains to pvc toys that have a 'hip hop' or 'city life' or 'graffitti' theme to them. like Lau's and So's stuff. basically the Hong Kong School the other school- the 'Japanese School' based on REAL OG toys and characters and then re-invented by Oka/Hikaru/Hide etc has a more 'punk' flavor. that being said I use 'Kaiju' for the REAL OG toys and currnt 'non ironic' J toys 'Neo-Kaiju' for the RxH/Sb etc type stuff for the 'western' stuff I usually explain it to people as 'art toys'. OK, grind me a new asshole now.
I don't think Matt was trying to be derogatory, probably just descriptive as Hillsy states. Last year I asked Chad, Brian and other toy makers what the "proper" term is for this stuff we covet and the answers varied: Japanese Vinyl, Designer Vinyl, New Kaiju, etc. Matt wasn't writing a book here. It was a post in his blog. Let's cut him some slack...if anything it has been a great source of healthy debate and discussion which I found interesting.
I am not arguing this point, I am suggesting that the fact that he did not know this word would be taken in a derogatory way suggest he doesn't really know much about the subject he is writing about.
I often write about stuff I know nothing about....usually on this board and sometimes on bathroom walls.
I agree, the argument over "urban vinyl" is pointless. The core issue in the article, though, is the sales strategies, and there are strong correlations between outifts like Gargamel and BAPE. I also think it's funny that people are accusing Matt of not knowing anything about "the scene." He was posting about Gargamel on Toybox DX years ago, showing off his Gacha Dokuro. Not that that gives him any sort of extra credibility, but he didn't just stumble upon Gargamel in the pages of Super7 yesterday and start writing about it.
