DCON?

Discussion in 'Muton's Minute' started by leili, Sep 7, 2015.

  1. Anti Social Andy

    Anti Social Andy Die-Cast

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    DCON?
    Maybe it's the future and I'm just an old Yorkshire luddite, but $65 for the privilege of having a chance to try buy overpriced junk, that I may or may not be even interested in (without a vendor list it's russian roulette), via a freaky real time online store scenario has to be the easiest pass of 2020.
     
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  2. gatiio

    gatiio Side Dealer

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    DCON?
    Oof, this has all the potential to be a mess in the era of bots.

    But what isn’t a roulette in this hobby :-/
     
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  3. Bill

    Bill Fresh Meat

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    DCON?
    I work professionally making websites and I often have to make bots to test my work. With how easy bots are to make and how effective they are at mimicking human actions (but at x10 the speed) I'm surprised that anyone (seller or buyer) still prefers the shop drop method over lotteries.
     
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  4. Madmax405

    Madmax405 Addicted

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    DCON?
    Lotteries have their own issues and there's no perfect solution because there's more demand than there are toys.
     
  5. Bill

    Bill Fresh Meat

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    DCON?
    Do you mind explaining what some of the issues are? The only thing I can really think of is that some people can increase their chances by having friends or family enter on their behalf. When that's the case there is at least still some chance (though diminished) that a person following the rules can win. If a flipper is determined and resourceful enough they can run multiple bots and buyout entire drops, assuming each buys with different shipping and payment info. But perhaps there's some other issues with lotteries I'm overlooking.
     
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  6. Madmax405

    Madmax405 Addicted

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    DCON?
    I mean that's pretty much it. Whether it's a lotto or a shop drop, I think plenty of people have found ways to game either system. I'm not going to comment on any specific maker, and I'm lucky enough to be able to purchase from all the makers I truly love. But, I just dont think there's a perfect method. I actually have great success with popular web shop drops. And I've gotten plenty of toys by lotto as well.
     
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  7. zindabad

    zindabad Comment King

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    DCON?
    Currently working on a (hellish) browser testing project and I agree with you. That said, understanding the tools gives you some insight into how to make your site layout resistant. I can't speak for purchase attempts directly through the backend, though; that's not my forte.
     
  8. gatiio

    gatiio Side Dealer

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    DCON?
    yah, not perfect but so is this whole thing with toys.

    Btw, will there be a hyperstoic zoom meeting this year in lieu of that club not being able to meet?

    Hehe
     
  9. HBCoffin

    HBCoffin Toy Prince

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    DCON?
    If anyone planning on buying a ticket has any questions regarding Popshop Live I am happy to offer advice here or privately. I don't know exactly how the system will be for DesignerCon or if any significant changes will be made to the UI on mobile or desktop, but I think it is safe to assume it won't be much different aside from limits on quantities.

    I have been shopping on Popshop Live with 3D Retro, catching every show since the beginning of July. They air 2-3 times a week. I have also tuned in to a number of other streams religiously, including Giant Robot and My Plastic Heart, though the latter only recently got approved as a seller.

    If you happen to jump in, nearly everyone you will see in the chat and making purchases—regardless of the store—is a return client. We've all become somewhat familiar with each other. People kind of know what everyone is in to and will cheer another on when they've seen something they want, working together to get the representative's attention when they are being neglectful. Of course, when there's something a lot of people want the gloves are off. Most often it is all in good fun and no one walks away too salty.

    There is one regular who is the assumed resident flipper of the community and she goes by Karen (no joke). She purchases a lot of items, at times in large numbers, and she doesn't seem to follow a pattern of interest. By my observation she doesn't have an evident advantage over any other shopper.

    The desktop version was only made accessible to the public in the past month or so. After discussing with others, the general consensus seems clear—mobile shopping is faster. It can be misleading as the audio and video feed of the web application is almost always ahead by 1-2 seconds when running side by side with a mobile device. This may lead one to assume it is faster, giving you the ability to see a product go up before those shopping on mobile platforms and a decisive head start. I don't believe that is the case. I have not been very successful utilizing the web application to purchase high ticket items. Others have shared similar experiences. I find it much more efficient to rapidly tap the catalog item and checkout buttons on touch enabled hardware than to drag a cursor across the screen to 3 different locations in order to complete a purchase. I consider myself to be quick and precise with a mouse, playing PC games on a competitive level in my youth and well into adulthood. Even at my best I do not feel confident shopping this way given my rate of failure. I've decided to only use the web application when I am watching passively. My best bet has been to switch to mobile if I see something I really want.

    To increase chances of success I would recommend one use a mobile device, pre-register and pay with a credit card directly through the application (i.e. not Apple Pay), learn and get comfortable with the button layout (you only have to hit 2 different points on your screen, one of them twice in order to complete your purchase), and most importantly, have access to a fast internet connection. Though it may not be a game changer it wouldn't hurt to be near your router. Without following these basic guidelines you may come to feel the system is working against you and/or people are using bots to complete their purchase, but I strongly believe otherwise.

    As of now if an artist asked me whether I'd prefer a drop on their website or Popshop, I would choose Popshop feeling confident I have a better chance of beating potential flippers and/or bots. I may be biased as I have been relatively successful when things get competitive. In its current state I have a hard time believing an able bot with a notable advantage will be developed for this platform, at least in time for DesignerCon.
     
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  10. Waterbear

    Waterbear Comment King

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    DCON?
    It sounds like a nightmare. If it were $10 bucks to play fair maybe it would be worth the time to download and learn an entire app but the VIP thing makes it sound fucking awful. People who pay an extra $55 bucks get to buy all the cool shit a day early and everyone else gets the scraps? Honestly that is pretty laughable. Trying to justify it by giving out a bearbrick and a sharpie? No thanks.

    Sounds like a flippers paradise though. Instead of paying people to line up and try to grab stuff you can just get them to go online VIP style in zombie hoards. Though who knows if there will even be anything people want to flip since the official vendors list is a ghost town. At the very least they could have waited for a finished vendor list and some actual products before pushing the LIMITED QUANTITY VIP TICKETS ON SALE NOW stuff. Why sell the "limited" tickets a month ahead of time without an actual vendor list? Why even limit tickets to an ONLINE event in the first place?

    Dcon was great because even if you didn't buy anything you still got to meet tons of toy makers and see tons of toys in person you may have never seen before. This removes both of those aspects. Honestly I hope it goes well and is fun for everyone who buys in but the VIP ruins it for me.

    I totally understand that the whole idea of an online dcon is a big risk but that risk should be on the shoulders of the people running dcon right? Not on the wallets of everyone else.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2020
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  11. Bill

    Bill Fresh Meat

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    DCON?
    My guess is that they know the vendor list is going to be lackluster and they're trying to secure some ticket sales on the potential of a good (or flippable) vendor list and artificial ticket scarcity.
     
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  12. Madmax405

    Madmax405 Addicted

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    DCON?
    [​IMG]

    They said more is coming but here is the confirmed vendor list so far...
     
  13. animator

    animator Mr. Freshly Smacked Ass Staff Member

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    DCON?
    I actually think having a popshop live for each vendor will turn a lot of vendors off. It's not the same as meeting fans in person, and it also requires a lot of time and dedication that differs from the time and dedication of an actual con.

    I imagine small vendors(like my wife and I) will sit out because there is not a natural flow of traffic like you would see at a con. Our art/print sales are probably split 50/50 between fans and first time buyers. While I'd like to hope most attendees would look through all the vendors on a virtual list, I'm just not sure people will put in the time and effort. Most people do like to walk the halls and find new fun things to buy, but doing this online is a bit different and I'm not sure I can see it happening.

    As for the toys. I imagine most toy makers have a dedicated fanbase(or IG following) and will opt to keep their sales as shop drops on their own sites, or as lotteries. So it's a lot easier to have a "dcon" release for themselves rather than saying hey, go to this site, download this app, pay $10, etc.

    It would be a lot easier to jump on board for this if dcon was more personable. If I cared more for their "brand" and they cared for mine. I understand this is a business, but also understand dcon started very grassroots and has become huge and unmanageable for smaller vendors. So, I'm torn when an event is pushed into a different format and seems disorganized and rushed, simply because they want to make it happen.
     
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  14. Waterbear

    Waterbear Comment King

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    DCON?
    So basically each vendor has to do their own live show and ship out whatever they sell themselves individually? Dcon was cool for buttons and pins and stickers and prints but virtual attendees having to pay to ship every item from every different seller sounds awful and expensive especially while USPS is broken.

    I just read the entire thing was ONLY OPEN TO US RESIDENTS so you can't even attend the event virtually from another country but it's open to vendors around the world. What the actual fuck. I guess the easy pass wasn't even needed @Anti Social Andy since your whole part of the world is banned from event altogether.

    Almost all of those vendors listed above have big online shops already...
     
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  15. moodydoom

    moodydoom Addicted

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    DCON?
    From what I’ve seen from giant robot, 3dretro and one or two other vendors there sales have been very very impressive. I’m surprised by the negativity here. I full applaud Ben and the Dcon team for being creative and proactive in such a shity situation. I really can’t see this as a cash grab for them. I’m unsure of the multiple simultaneous vendors vibe, but / from the few I’ve been on - I think it’s a fantastic opportunity to connect with your audience. I think you’re maybe seeing the future of drops with this technology from an engagement perspective. (Can’t comment on the technology aspect)
     
  16. animator

    animator Mr. Freshly Smacked Ass Staff Member

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    DCON?

    I'm not sure how shipping or anything like that will work. Popshop has some shipping deal where it's $5.99 to ship anything. I really don't know how it will work for this, since it sounds like each vendor will have their own page within dcon. It could be great, but also sounds complex/unorganized. Not knowing the details makes it frustrating for both vendors and attendees.

    Initially they wanted it to be world wide, but I don't think Popshop can handle that. Popshop just got their web version running and hope to have Android soon. Until a few weeks ago it was iPhone only.
     
  17. animator

    animator Mr. Freshly Smacked Ass Staff Member

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    DCON?
    I completely agree that this is a great opportunity for larger vendors, vendors with established stores, and it even has potential for bigger name toymakers. I just don't think it fits a good portion of vendors at dcon, who are looking for exposure and sales are generally in the $10-20 range.

    Speaking for Popshop outside of Dcon: I like the idea of Popshop and I think they are very successful with what they do. I think it is extremely valid for established brands. I also don't know the logistics of how Popshop makes their money. For an individual to use them, that has a smaller inventory, they'd have to weigh the costs of a web based shop vs. using Popshop. Popshop does offer the potential of fan interaction, which can be really cool.
     
  18. moodydoom

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    DCON?
    From what I understand the flat pop shop fee will be per vendor. So you'll get hit with the $6 only once per vendor over the weekend.

    To your points David, as a small vendor you might be better off having a sales time-slot at a bigger digital 'booth' where you call in. You could land up getting some exposure and making some decent sales for a small window.

    For me, if there was a single channel for our... cough...unique.... interests in the DCon experience, i'd prob. stick around that channel all day. Just like real life : )

    Someone get GrodyShogun on this ...
     
  19. Waterbear

    Waterbear Comment King

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    DCON?
    Nope.

    From Dcon Online "The shipping will depend on what each vendors are selling and where they are selling from."

    So I seriously doubt anyone will only pay just 6 bucks shipping from any vendor not in the US and it seems like even US vendors will be able to charge more for shipping depending on the items they are selling.

    It's more confusion than anything else.

    Vendors can be anywhere in the world but only US residents can buy tickets. That sucks.

    The $10 bucks per ticket thing is fine but knowing you get what's left after everyone who pays $65 bucks is done shopping is just lame.

    No concrete vendor list before "limited" tickets go on sale is not cool at all.
     
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  20. HBCoffin

    HBCoffin Toy Prince

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    DCON?
    I find in unreasonable to assume that being a VIP ticket holder makes one a shoe-in. I am doubtful that every vendor on board is to sign a contract stating, "all items that are limited and/or considered desirable in nature must be first offered to VIPs." It will be at the discretion of each vendor if they want to throw anything and everything at VIPs on the first day or spread out their releases over the weekend. Based on current practices and shop etiquette, my best guess is most will probably offer up a portion of their available stock each day. This would simply give VIPs an additional roll of the dice so to say, increasing their odds, not fixing the game. That would be my suggestion to keep things fair. It's also good for business because it encourages people to come back.

    Personally I don't expect purchasing a VIP ticket guarantees me anything apart from the items being offered as part of the package (t-shirt, exclusive BE@RBRICK, and other misc. goodies). Some vendors may even wait until the last day to drop certain items. Again, it'll be up to each one to decide how they want to conduct business and what they consider to be fair.
     
  21. Waterbear

    Waterbear Comment King

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    DCON?
    From Dcon Online - VIP TICKETS $65 ( EXCLUSIVE BEARBRICK INCLUDED, FRIDAY NIGHT 11/13 ACCESS ).

    It is crystal clear what VIP access is and the idea that "it's not fixing the game" is just funny. To defend something pretty much anyone would see as a cash grab by saying... well it can still be fair if each individual seller decides to make it fair by limiting their own stuff that night... is crazy. Why should each seller have to do that instead of Dcon making it fair in the first place?

    At the last Dcon there were just a few sellers in our particular hobby who strictly limited what they sold Friday and very much regretted it Saturday and Sunday. Several who said if they do Dcon this year it would be a free for all from the get go because Saturday was slow and Sunday was barely even a ghost town but Friday people wanted to buy everything they could get their hands on. Those who allowed it sold out of nearly everything on Friday. Those who didn't generally went home at the end of the weekend with lots of stock. So obviously any particular vendor could portion out items for each day equally but why on earth would they? To be "fair"? In my opinion fair would be everyone who buys a ticket gets an equal shot. Not everyone who buys a $10 ticket gets what is left after the $65 ticket night.
     
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  22. HBCoffin

    HBCoffin Toy Prince

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    DCON?
    Working tables for a business selling toys—unrelated to the designer community—I have over 50 nationwide events under my belt. After the first day the crowd typically diminishes each consecutive, so it doesn't surprise me if in the past the attendance numbers at DesignerCon followed the same trend. Real world expos can be exhausting for everyone, exhibitors included. The difference this time is that it takes virtually no effort to come back the next day, and the next. No one has to drive, find parking, run back and forth, wait in lines, carry things around, or settle for overpriced food when those hunger pangs kick in. Everything will be accessible from the comfort of your own home. It's an entirely different experience. Vendors won't have to push sales the first day under the assumption people won't likely come back the following—I'm confident they will. We're in the midst of a pandemic and a society that is already glued to our phones or comparative screens, what do you think people will do?

    I can see why it comes off as a cash grab. Perhaps it is. Ben is pretty passionate about this stuff though and I think more than anything he just wants to see it happen.
     
  23. Waterbear

    Waterbear Comment King

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    DCON?
    With Dcon specifically in previous years tons of people had issues with vendors getting whatever they wanted before anyone else had a chance. Getting vendor passes while not being a vendor was incredibly easy for way too many people. The VIP stuff was incredibly frustrating as well. Like you said, this is an entirely different experience this time around so it sucks to see the same issue being an issue all over again by choice. Paying an extra $55 bucks for 4 hours of early access Friday and an hour on Saturday speaks for itself.

    They could have just charged $25 bucks for every ticket and let everyone have a shot at everything. Charging $65 bucks for early access is either a cash grab or a way to force people to "buy" the Dcon bearbrick/sharpie/pin stuff.

    It makes no difference at all with sellers that have basically unlimited products so I'm sure lots of people won't mind. Sellers and buyers included. So I can see why lots of people are excited about selling/buying stuff. It very specifically affects vinyl toy makers and collectors because the nature of our stuff is smaller numbers of generally hand painted stuff. So my complaints are pretty specific to what I actually care about. Which I also assume is why the amount of vinyl and sofubi makers on the vendor list is almost non-existent.

    This version of Dcon may very well end up great for the people behind it and for lots of sellers and fans but for SkullBrain specifically which is mostly vinyl collectors and full of people around the world who aren't even allowed to play, it kind of sucks.
     
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  24. moodydoom

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    DCON?
    I'm not in the US, I can still play. Forwarding service. done.

    ...Now to get that 65 dollar bearbrick so i can take nasty photos of it on my delectables and post them here for all you miserable old fucks.
     
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  25. gatiio

    gatiio Side Dealer

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    DCON?

    Noice!

    While you’re at it, make sure you tag it #HxS #HxSxK #sofubi #kaiju to really get us foaming at the mouth


    Being abroad, might as well try to get in the fun. I hope dcon doesn’t take too much of a hit as an event, even though it was already getting funko’d out
     
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