Re: Sea Shepherd boat attacked 07.01.10 at end of thread. SSCS propoganda and lies playbook: Misinformation (x) Express fantasy as reality (x) Claim failure is success (x) Fail to rebut facts (x) Cite fake statistics (x) Accuse SSCS critic of being paid agent of the Japanese ( ). You're missing at least one option here maybe more, fairly certain the above isn't an exhaustive list.
Re: Sea Shepherd boat attacked 07.01.10 at end of thread. I wonder if there are more whales than eskimos at this point.
Re: Sea Shepherd boat attacked 07.01.10 at end of thread. Ok Krudler, thankyou for enlightening me on the seashepherds cowardice and other above mentioned failings. I will look at their activities with a much keener eye from now on in.
Re: Sea Shepherd boat attacked 07.01.10 at end of thread. You're probably right. If Paul Watson figures this out I expect SSCS to take full credit in an upcoming news release. Its probably Roger's intellectual property so hopefully they at least credit him unless he donates it to them voluntarily.
Re: Sea Shepherd boat attacked 07.01.10 at end of thread. "Uh, where did you say you got this photo again?"
Re: Sea Shepherd off to Club Med 26.01.10 at end of thread. more clippings Sunday, 24th January 2010 Sea Shepherd heading to the Mediterranean to protect tuna Caroline Muscat Crew of the Japanese ship Shonan Maru No. 2 sprays water at the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society's high-tech powerboat Ady Gil during a collision between the two vessels in the Southern Ocean. (Reuters) The Sea Shepherd Conservation Society will not be getting much rest after the Japanese whaling season as it announced it is heading to the Mediterranean to oppose the illegal operations of Bluefin tuna poachers. Both Sea Shepherd ships, the Steve Irwin and the Bob Barker, will head for the Mediterranean from the Southern Ocean. The organisation said this is a crucial year in the battle to save the species, adding that it will not cave in to threats and violence from the fishermen. The organisation has a long-standing campaign against Japanese whaling, a saga at the centre of Animal Planet's Whale Wars series. Announcing their venture into the Mediterranean, the organisation's founder and president, Captain Paul Watson, said: "We need to bring to the attention of the international public that one of the most unique fish species in the world, the Bluefin tuna, is on the brink of extinction due to the illegal fisheries driven by Japan's insatiable demand for this expensive fish." Two weeks ago a single Bluefin tuna sold to Japan fetched $177,000 (€125,230). As the fish becomes rarer, the prices paid for it will become higher. "This is the economics and politics of extinction," the organisation said, insisting that corruption, and the rising market value of the Bluefin was preventing any real conservation efforts. The Sea Shepherd said its campaigns against Japanese whalers equipped it with the experience and resolve to tackle the violence of poachers. "We may lose a ship, but the loss of a ship is preferable to the loss of the Bluefin as a species. Ships are expendable, species are not," Captain Watson said. While it is unlikely the group will come into contact with Maltese vessels, any success for the organisation will affect local trade. While Malta's fleet is small compared with other Mediterranean countries, thousands of tuna are brought to Malta in cages by foreign fishermen to be fattened and exported. Last year, Malta exported €86.3 million worth of Bluefin tuna in 11 months, according to figures released in Parliament. A report produced by the Federation of Maltese Aquaculture Producers (FMAP) states that the industry has doubled its turnover over the two-year period to 2007. Tuna is now the third most exported commodity, according to the federation. Last September, the European Commission recommended that the EU should support a temporary suspension of the global trade of Bluefin tuna. But the recommended ban was shot down by Greece, Cyprus, Malta, Spain, France and Italy - all countries with a stake in the trade. Conservationists are now hoping for a better result at the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (Cites) to be held in March. The EU has to take a common position on whether Bluefin tuna should be included on an international list of hundreds of endangered species that require protection. But the EU's stand is not yet clear because Stavros Dimas, the environment commissioner who favours a temporary ban, is at loggerheads with Joe Borg, the fisheries commissioner, who opposes it. Last Tuesday, Malta came under fire in the London Times, which said Dr Borg was protecting the country's interest to the detriment of the species. Dr Borg believes new measures introduced last November are enough to protect the species, a view not shared by the Greek Commissioner. Neither of the commissioners has signalled any willingness to compromise and, so far, the Commission's president, José Manuel Barroso, has preferred to leave the two commissioners to sort it out between themselves.
Sea Shepherd Welcomes Dr. Sidney Holt to the Advisory Board taken from seashepherd site... Sea Shepherd News Friday, February 05, 2010 Sea Shepherd Welcomes Dr. Sidney Holt to the Advisory Board Dr. Sidney Holt is one of the most influential marine biologists of the 20th Century. Born in England in 1926 and educated at the University of Reading, England. He is today a resident of Umbria, Italy. Sidney was the co-author with R. J. H. Beverton of a book "On the Dynamics of exploited Fish Populations" first published in 1957 and which has since gone to three more editions, and has been described by his peers as “the most widely cited fisheries book ever published. . . a great work (that) created a solid foundation for one of the two major global visions of the science of fisheries². This book was the genesis of the modern age-structured approach to the optimal management of fishery resources. Beverton and Holt will continue to be a source of inspiration and insight for many years to come." Sidney was years employed for twenty-five years in United Nations organizations, having been appointed at various times Director of the Fisheries Resources and Operations Division of the Food and Agriculture Organization of the UN (FAO, in Rome), Secretary of the Intergovernmental Oceanographic Commission (IOC) and Director of UNESCO's Marine Sciences Division in Paris. He has held professorial chairs at the Universities of California Santa Cruz, of Rhode Island and of Malta, and a Senior Overseas Fellowship at St John's College, Cambridge. In Malta he served as UN Advisor on Mediterranean Marine Affairs and was one of the founders and the first Director of the International Ocean Institute (IOI) there. Since his retirement from the United Nations in 1979 Dr. Holt has devoted his energies mainly to the conservation and protection of the Great Whales, serving on the International Whaling Commission's (IWC) Committee of Three scientists 1960-1985, on the delegation of the Republic of Seychelles to the IWC 1979-1987, as adviser to the Government of France 1992-4 and to the Delegations of Italy and Chile to the IWC, and also as Science Adviser to the International Fund for Animal Welfare (IFAW) since 1980. He has participated in various capacities for more than thirty years in the Scientific Committee of the IWC, as well as in the Commission itself, from 1959 to 2002. He was honoured with the Gold Medal of the World Wildlife Fund (WWF), the Royal Netherlands Golden Ark, the Global 500 Award of the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) and The Blue Planet Award of IFAW, all for contributions to the protection of marine mammals, to animal welfare and to fisheries science. Why I support SSCS on the whaling issue By Dr. Sidney Holt Although I have long had, and continue to have, informal and sometime formal advisory relations with several NGOs that consistently and persistently oppose commercial whaling, I am looking to SSCS for two special reasons: SSCS is not afraid to speak out against cruelty to, and mistreatment of, sentient non-human beings, and SSCS more than any others is clear about the fact that commercial whaling, especially that by Japan in the guise of scientific research, is driven solely by business/financial considerations and is best opposed through disrupting those imperatives, both on the supply and the demand sides. I am also impressed by the clarity and unambiguity with which Paul Watson expresses his views and defines the SSCS strategy. And I applaud the dedication and bravery of those who crew the SSCS ships. Lastly, I tend always to support those who try to persuade or even force Governments and other "Authorities" to honour the commitments they have made by being party to international agreements, rather than merely by paying lip service to them.
Re: Sea Shepherd Welcomes Dr. Sidney (go to end of thread.) Skipped the cut and paste SS propoganda, more's likely to follow though since SS has been pulling publicity stunts recently. Looks like that bonehead Pete Bethune who rammed a Japanese Whaling vessel with a tiny speedboat is up to more asshattery. He boarded a Japanese vessel, vandalized it with a knife then refused to leave. Funny links relating to Pete Bethune's possible future: http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20100 ... 1-yom-soci http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20100 ... 8-jij-soci If those links are correct the Japanese Government may very well have decided to hand him over to the Japanese coast guard. Germs is likely awaiting official SSCS propoganda to cut and paste. Japanese prison would be delightful for Pete Bethune, the less children he has the less stupid people will be born, its natural selection. Hopefully the Japanese don't show weakness and actually follow through with the handover to Japanese law enforcement. Japanese Maritime Safety Agency welcomes Pete Bethune (go to end of thread).
Re: Sea Shepherd Welcomes Dr. Sidney (go to end of thread.) The above piece is a letter from a respected marine biologist on what he sees are the merits of the seashepherd conservation society.
Re: Sea Shepherd Welcomes Dr. Sidney (go to end of thread.) Well after Krudlers criticisims Ive decided to have a look around for negative reports of the seashepherd society. A simple one is that people are questioning the effectiveness of Paul Watsons alleged staged events and the way he handles the whole conservation thing. Apparently industry heads see it as damaging to the overall cause who think organisations should take a "wholistic" approach to conservation and that his methods lose the non radicalised people turning away possible supporters. I think this is a very real threat. One that any so called radical organisation has to come to grips with. The problem sscs has to deal with now is it's succsess in reaching large audiences and its associated problems. Once wider audiences get the message and start to critic its methods Maybe it's time to change tack? Is that a question for its founder or supporters? I have also come across the criticism that he has changed "the goal posts" from that of stamping out whaling to that of bunkrupting the whalers, which critics have said is impossible because the Japanese government has been subsidising this racket since the 70's. And also actualy use whaling as "a straight up tool for nationalism". Saying that his plan is "out of step with reality". and that the sscs is not much more than a platform for paul watsons ego and wallet. Adding that the "conservation movement" cannot afford to see the flow of important monies flow out of "serious" and "everlasting conservation efforts". For the first part I would have to say that I concede that trying to bankrupt a government sanctioned gangster led racket does seem "out of step with reality". And of course anyone would have reservations about a small organisations capabilities to affect such change but if you (atleast) see it from paul watsons eyes he and a small few others are actually stopping the whales from being killed. Which would also pay answer if only partly to the accusation/questions of wether this is purely an excersing of ego and for money. In regards to his apparent changing of the "goal posts" Any reasonable debate on this subject would have to acknowledge the premise that things do change over time. A battle like this does get harder and more complex which would neccessarily mean that immediate goals would have to be adjusted. Another critic wrote (and this ones just for laughs) his "street cred" was devastated by south park and SSCS entire popularity is based on a thin perception with the 18-34 mostly male demographic...the same one South Park just exposed." haha. I hope that Krudler can see that I do not wish to be blindly led by anyone and am sincere in my feelings about ending whaling . And by posting these criticisms (of which I know is not exhaustive ) I am atleast trying to show the other sides of this debate. And though I am still thankfull for what sscs does, I do now atleast understand how people see that Paul Watsons actions are divisive and counter productive.
Re: Sea Shepherd criticisms (go to end of thread.) Paul Watson is just too duplicitous. If someone pisses on your leg tells you its raining then asks for a handout they are bound to alienate people. Did not think it possible to dislike SSCS more than Whalers but the constant SS misinformation and false bravado wore thin very fast. They simply get nothing done, lie, and talk way too much trash in the process of burning vast quantities of fossil fuels. Pete Bethune if extradited to South America might be in very hot water but he may well be toast now if Japan charges him. Paul Watson is giving sound bites that Pete Bethune will put the whaling industry on trial if he's charged, that's a hippy fantasy. Pete Bethune likely actually believes Paul Watson that a Japanese Judge will allow a show trial against the whaling industry but in all likelihood Bethune will be gagged in the courtroom if he tries SS hijinks there. If Bethune's tried in Japan or extradited to Latin America he may not see the light of day again. Paul Watson won't set foot in Japan unless they arrest him. Paul Watson tends to send impressionable young people on fool's errands then hides in his cabin while they take the consequences. If SS follows a whaling kill ship the others in the fleet go on whaling. The last season proved whaling does not stop when SS starts on a vessel from the fleet. The Japanese killed and processed many whales in the last episode with SS just wringing their hands and wailing. SS only succeeded in humanizing the Whalers to many people in the US, totally counter productive. Germs, if whaling ended it'd be a really great thing, just don't think SSCS will play any part in it other than galvanizing the resolve of the Japanese to not be pushed around by Watson. The Japanese are a proud people they're not easily bullied. SSCS does far more harm than good as far as conservation imo.
Re: Sea Shepherd criticisms (go to end of thread.) i don't see how you could classify bringing attention to whaling practices, even if you don't like the methods, as being in any way a bad thing. most people have no idea that this shit is even going on. more people learning = more people taking an interest = more political pressure that can be applied, and that's the only way a real change will happen.
Re: Sea Shepherd criticisms (go to end of thread.) Animal Planet had to shut the Whale Wars forums due to all the vitriol directed at SS; the Whalers were being seen as victims by AP's viewership. Rehabilitating the Japanese Whaler's image in the USA is ultimately what SSCS has accomplished.
Re: Sea Shepherd criticisms (go to end of thread.) I just cant see how a whalers image can be rehabilitated. I can see how Paul Watsons tactics/antics whatever you want to call them can create a reactionary backlash when it reaches a mainstream audience. And Krudler, I am glad we agree that the ending of whaling is a good thing.
Re: Sea Shepherd criticisms (go to end of thread.) I've been on a boat and had Humpback Whales come up very close, they're smart, majestic, incredible animals. Whaling pisses me off immensely but so does Paul Watson. The Whalers are having butyric acid thrown at them as well as glass bottles that contain a slippery substance that might cause people to fall overboard into deadly waters. The USA has a large population of people who are just trying to survive financially and doing physically awful work. The Whaler's jobs seem worse to lots of people here. Read New York Times articles comments (or other US media you respect, if there is any). If you do you'll see that many US citizens identify with people who are trying to feed their families by doing miserable work. People are taking the Whalers side against SSCS who seem like cult members threatenening the lives of hard workers in frigid waters. SSCS is counterproductive in that people here on major media commment sites (even liberal ones) largely support the Japanese Whalers since they see them being attacked by reckless hippies. This was not the case prior to Whale Wars. Plus the guy actually ran a speedboat close to a whaling vessel, its just breathtakingly stupid unless it was intentional to create publicity. Either way if he gets hauled into court in Japan he will be very surprised what he's faced with.
Re: Sea Shepherd criticisms (go to end of thread.) I respect your opinion Krudler , but Im must say a few things. This is direct action anti whaling, it is confrontational. People always complain about loss of jobs in relation to environmental reform. Media comment sites exist for controversy Butyric acid is pretty much just off butter. It smells bad. Its a pity that they are being made out to "seem like cult members" When thaey are passionate individuals, volunteers that work for nothing risking their lives in those very same frigid waters. Even greenpeace drive there little rubber duckies in an around the whaling ships trying to prevent them harpooning whales. They differ from sscs because they say it is ok for them to put their lives in harms way to protect the whales but not harm other people. The way sscs might do when a harpooner slips on some slippery stuff thrown onboard to prevent them harpooning whales. One might argue that this is as benign as the greenpeace boats because it is merely a deterrent. If the captains on board feared for his crews life he would not send them out on board, no whales would be killed just as they wouldnt if a greenpeace boat had gotten between a whale and an explosive harpoon tip. Its not like they are shooting at the whalers. Some might argue that if you are out there to cause harm to these majestic sentient creatures. Then you deserve it. Now if you disagree with their methodology because you disagree with (possibly) causing harm to whale harpooners or you disagree with trading direct action for public approval then I would see your point and i think Paul Watson has chosen a tricky path with this whole Wale Wars television broadcast. You know the saying, live by the sword die by the sword. Well he is getting it in spades for taking this route. I think I regret their move as I have been a supporter for a while and respected thier low attention head down direct action doggedness. Now all this. Though I am not convinced that it has been a completely wrong move either as Scud80 mentioned above with "more people learning = more people taking an interest = more political pressure that can be applied, and that's the only way a real change will happen." So I temper my enthusiasm for sscs actions with its possible pitfalls.
Re: Sea Shepherd criticisms (go to end of thread.) Some family is going to get very sad news, maybe a Japanese family or an SS family but its inevitable and unnecessary. Every holiday will suck, children losing a parent, there are so many possible ramifications. If the Japanese are serious its already happened and its going to be Bethune's wife and kids.
Re: Sea Shepherd criticisms (go to end of thread.) Yes you can say that about bigger more insidious battles around the globe. Now I will play devils advocate here and say that atleast this battle is over the protection of powerless innocent creatures. Yes it is wastefull and sad if someone should suffer for what should already be a given in this day and age.
Re: Sea Shepherd criticisms (go to end of thread.) Having seen both seasons of Whale Wars I don't believe SSCS prevents any Whale deaths. Its also edited to make SSCS look as favourable as possible and they still come across as completely incompetent "warriors" and blatant liars. I see the organization as a vehicle for Paul Watson to take in money and get publicity, its showbiz albeit at great risk for people other than Paul Watson. It would take a lot to make the Japanese cave on something like this and Paul Watson won't get it done. Changing public opinion might help but SSCS is not doing the cause any good in the USA, they are seen as fleabag hippy ecoterrorists by a great many people here and public opinion seems to be with the Whalers. SS will deny it, but they are really disliked by a great many people in the USA. The Whalers manage to come across as industrious and polite victims of fringe fanatics. The show is a trainwreck in so many ways.
Re: Sea Shepherd criticisms (go to end of thread.) I find it sad that the very people down there trying to do something are accused of not trying to do anything. Seems like an awful lot of work and harm to ones life and character for a bit of "showbiz". I would like to hear from some people who have been down there on the ship to see if they believe that what they are doing is actually saving some whales from being harpooned.
Re: Sea Shepherd criticisms (go to end of thread.) Watch the show or read their website you'll constantly hear that they think they are heroes doing great work. The problem for them is they look and sound like they'd follow Jim Jones if he were still around. They haven't a shred of credibility after the "shooting", the claims of "kidnap", the claim a speed boat let a Whaling vessel ram them (the speedboat has a wake on film), Watson's white powder stunt, "the whaling stops today" pronouncements. Its all on film, really hard to succesfully deny to non Kool Aide drinkers.
ok then ill rephrase that to ...I would like to hear from some people who had been down there on the ship to see if they can prove that what they are doing is actually saving some whales from being harpooned... though credibility issues aside. In my opinion If I were down there chasing and getting in the way of operations It would be safe to hypothesise that I would be directly slowing the killing costing whalers lots of money and saving whales. Even if it was till nextime. I dont mean to oppose you for the sake of it Krudler but I dont think they can prove or disprove that the "shooting" incident is fake or other wise. From what Ive researched any way. But even if it was all hooplah for attention as regrettable as it may seem. Like I said above, I believe imo that they could still save whales by being there.
Watson is a poor actor, the "bullet" penetrated the bullet proof vest but was supposedly "stopped" by his fake lawman's "badge" just like a cowboy movie. He did not react the way people in bullet proof vests react to getting shot. Its a huge impact even if the bullet is stopped. Unless you prove he's related to Super-Man (and that Super-Man exists) you'll never sell me on that being a real shooting. Same goes for SSCS stopping or really hindering Whaling, the failure, lies, and incompetence are all documented on film. Its hard to convincingly lie about something that's been filmed. We both disagree no biggie.
Paul Watson is self centered fat fuck with a major Ahab complex. With that said it's sad to see whales killed but I hear they taste great.
