Which is why all suspected witches should be thrown in water. If they drown, they are not a witch. If they float, they are a witch and should be killed immediately. Paranoia helps nobody.
You're not really making a really great argument here. We may have survived since 9/11 but that doesn't mean that nutjobs haven't stopped trying to take down airliners. We have: - the shoe bomber incident, which resulted in a new policy of having shoes screened - the arrests of the two dozen people who were plotting to detonate liquid-based explosives in ten airliners, resulting in the liquid restrictions at the checkpoints - the failed airline underwear bomber, which was the incident that led to the TSA implementing these scanners It is a "barn door" approach, it always will be, and these people will continue to try and game the systems we put in place, but I don't think we should stop trying to catch them before they get onto planes.
To be fair, it does help those who manufacture, market, and sell security technologies, and their investors.
Well, actually, if this link has any truth to it, Rapiscan had 150 of these ready before the curiously lame undie-bombr: http://www.truth-out.org/invasion-body-scanners56324 But, then got another contract signed shortly after.. All motivated by the enthusiastic cheer leading from one Mr. Chertoff, former Homeland Security chief. Nah. These are just coincidences. Or Mr Google is off his rockers again..
Roger I agree with your point. As you can tell by my website link I am not 100% sure we were attacked by anyone outside of Washington D.C. so my arguments may be, eh, unconventional. BTW reporting on what TSA does in their offices might get you into trouble in today's "post 9/11 world"... Let us know and we SB'rs will free you!
Actually the problem of the military–industrial complex is profoundly real. I’m not against the development of weapons and methods of defense, but the level of money thrown into these projects eclipse anything else. Case in point: The war in Iraq. And we're now debating healthcare and funding for the arts for what reason? If you check the amount of money spent on taking care of people in the U.S. versus bombing the snot out of others in other countries, it's night and day.
One of the things that bugs me about it, these searches are not "pat downs" like they keep calling them. They are a full on search. Going inside pockets, inside your waistband...the same search you would get if arrested or being booked into jail. Technically a strip search involves any movement of clothing, like lifting your shirt to see the waist. A "pat down" is just like it sounds, a patting of the clothing to feel for weapons only. Personally, I think we need way more explosive sniffing dogs in airports.
I'm cautiously wading in here... I want to be more surprised than I am that there are people who think all this is ok, provided it's under the guise of "prevention" and "safety" (feel free to throw in a "think about the children!" at any point). I see several problems with the scanners and more to the point the invasive action of the TSA. As Roger pointed out, they employ idiots, they then empower said idiots. These are not doctors, who we trust to touch us, because they are (supposed to be) professional and have taken oaths to that affect. They go to school for years in order to stare at wrinkled cocks and saggy breasts. Apologies, I forget who said it before, but it is the crux of the matter, it is down to training. As implied by the video that started this thread, no one sees them as anything but a joke. Albeit and invasive, threatening, scary joke, that will continue as long as people say bullshit like "it's in y/our best interest." The so called Terrierists are angry at the US for force feeding American values on their cultures, or something similar. I see the actions of the American Government, the TSA, Homeland Security etc as removing those very same freedoms from their beloved population. So in effect, the Terrierists have won. We can no longer travel freely, we can no longer feel safe that our families won't be molested on their way to their grandmothers. And *insert deity here forbid that someone spots an unattended bag, you'd best shut down the whole city centre. Yeah, that sounds free and fun to me.
Cut the defense budget back to just DEFENSE, not offense. Defend what's within our borders, but not that which is beyond our borders. Use all that left-over money to SUPPORT what's within our borders. We are hated because we're the World Police - stop being the World Police and we might not be hated quite so much.
Hey folks, did you see this: "Authorities say curbside baggage handlers at the Miami International Airport accepted cash from travelers to check in extra or overweight bags, causing a possible security risk." See what I mean. Innocent passengers are molested and treated like crap. Underpaid front-line folks who work at the airport are circumventing security for what reason? The system is panicky, broken and dysfunctional.
My sister is a frequent air traveler, and wrote this open letter to the TSA, CEOs of two airlines, and members of Congress. http://kmcgivney.typepad.com/kathleen_mcgivney/2010/11/an-open-letter-regarding-the-tsa.html
Backtrack comment with some much needed British modesty... thanks! Actually thought you might have a different view considering "the troubles" over there for decades.. My Mom is still terrorised about riding the London tube with IRA packages....
It's pretty easy to get stuff by most 'regular airport' workers. I never ever check bags. I once brought a duffle bag full of clothes and a big dj bag of records for a gig on a plane. The guy checking just winked and said "oh we'll just say the dj bag is a laptop!" Which I was cool with because damned if I'm letting the baggage people crack all my vinyl tossing it around. I've packed razors etc in my bags and I never get them taken out after sending them through the screener.
The US Defense department and US airline carriers consulted with ELAL and the IDF after 9/11, however, a lot of what they do (I.e. Racial profiling) is unacceptable as a form of screening in the US. I'd love the Total Recall scanner. That would be awesome!
I guess what bothers me most about airport security is that it goes to extreme measures that aren't in place any where else where there are potential security threats. I recall a car bomb in Times Square recently, thankfully that attack failed, and a car bomb in front of the citi building not too long ago. Why don't we have tighter security measures for autos, how about check points outside and inside of cities where you have to be stopped and have your car checked for explosives or weapons. Who cares if you need to add an extra hour or two on to your commute, the peace of mind is worth it. I recall anthrax being mailed, how about security checks at post offices, x-ray machines for your packages, get a pat down, to make sure you don't have any illegal substances in your pockets you'll stick in your package once it's stamped. Sure the people might chuckle at your dinosaur toys you receive every other day, but it would be worth it. Wasn't there a terrorist plot on a mall? How about metal detectors and emptying your pockets when you go to the mall? Courthouses do that, public schools do that... after plenty of shootings. Just saying... Is there really such a great risk at airports, risks that don't exist anywhere else? Maybe, I honestly don't know.
What it boils down to is that Americans, in general, want to feel safe but don't want to be inconvenienced in any way. So the people that are crying about any level of searches will also be the first and loudest to complain if something bad happens. We like to have our cake and eat it too. It's unfortunate that all of the security measures we take are a little after the fact and usually overreaching, but what's the alternative? Let the whole world know about failed plots but do nothing to stop any copycats? That's dumb.
There are potential security threats everywhere, aren't there? Spoken like someone who doesn't drive in and out of NYC. The checkpoints are there, and the delays can be pretty brutal, but I don't complain. Joe, you're sounding very naive. They have these measures in place at the post office and private shipping companies, especially after the anthrax attacks. That's up to the malls. There are some private establishments I go where I have to go through metal detectors. Sports stadiums, the occasional club, a roller rink I go to on a regular basis. And now you're sounding really naive, Joe. Even before 9/11 there has always been a history of airplane bombings and hijackings. I guess you didn't know?
Roger, I don't commute into NYC but I wasn't speaking specifically to NYC, NYC has security measures unmatched by other cities. I don't go into clubs that require a pat down. If they appeal to patrons who think it's necessary to pack heat, I'm not interested. I have been patted down at concerts, but never at a Yankees game. It's up to them, you're right, if security checks make you that uncomfortable and you know they're coming, you don't have go. Yes there have always been a history of airplane hijackings, yes, just like car bombs and shootings, and and poison in drinking water, and just like you said, any where possible. Just saying, I think the new measures are a little intense.
I think it's all to add to a heightened sense of fear and with that fear allowing new, harsher more restrictive measures of security. I wasn't here in the 80s and 90s, but the IRA has hit London since I was here and there have been several security alerts and "caught in the act" situations since 7/7. The only thing that has changed in my day to day normal travelling around London/the UK is we now have armed police in the airports. And even then, they are fairly discreet. Screening on and off planes is a bit higher, but nothing at all like the US. Oh, and thanks to the IRA, there are no bins allowed on the street or in the tubes, but I suppose that keeps street cleaners employed. On 7/7 itself, it was a weird, almost magical day. I'm not alone in this feeling either, I have spoken to several people since who agree. Everyone had to walk home, so masses of people were on the streets, sort of bemused and perplexed. Chatting with each other, heading to the pub, watching the telly and discussing with strangers what had happened. There wasn't anger or screaming in the streets. Before you go mental, I was on one of the Kings Cross platforms when the bombs went off, and even exiting the station was fairly nonchalant with a touch of confusion and a "fuck we're all gonna be late now." My point is that that heightened sense of fear and threat never has seemed to enter into the British psyche, it really is a Keep Calm and Carry On approach. Thatcher, for all her faults (and there were many), was pretty adamant that the terrorists would never win, no matter what that meant. But she seems to have also been keenly aware that that meant not changing how we as a people or nation live our lives. The moment we start changing things in our lives that affect us negatively, they have won. Unless someone else in that free market economy can manage to make a buck out it... in which case, we lose and They win.
Rest safe folks, another potential terrierist has been foiled... NOT! “A retired special education teacher on his way to a wedding in Orlando, Fla., said he was left humiliated, crying and covered with his own urine after an enhanced pat-down by TSA officers recently at Detroit Metropolitan Airport.” http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40291856/ns/travel-news
This is a really interesting piece, well worth the read. http://www.canow.org/canoworg/2010/11/civil-liberties-now-with-more-privileged-people.html I had no idea that the TSA couldn't be unionised and therefore can't fight for better wages... which then introduces an interesting element of frustration and class tension. She also quite conclusively covers the BS cries of "Just don't fly".
Speaking of false security. Memba when Fedzilla put the National Guard in NYC and at airports? Complete with M-16 Military Assault Rifles... With .223 caliber bullets that if fired in a crowded subway, airport, or CITY... would tear through the bad guy. And also 4-5 innocent citizens standing behind them. Point is, that bullet is not for close combat. It goes an awful long way. And if it shatters on impact? Everyone gets a free shrapnel! Gun enthusiasts tell me if I am wrong. I had this conversation with retired military but he was prone to exaggeration.
