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 Angora Patio 
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Comment King
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Post Re: Got paranoia?
zapatoloco wrote:
can you explain what is so morally reprehensible in reproducing a drawing with no intention of profiting or claiming it as ones own ?

Should one really always seek permission from the original author of a work we seek to reproduce as an exercise ? Should we be forbiden to show the results of such an exercise ?


Respect?

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Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:54 pm
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Post Re: Got paranoia?
i have agreed that my actions betrayed a lack of common courtesy. The rest is drama and i believe i did not behave in an immoral manner.

Respect= imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

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I had dreams of having one of these giant magical animal heads as my own.


Last edited by zapatoloco on Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:59 pm
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Post Re: Got paranoia?
As a wise boardmember said: a little PM goes a long way.

I guess now I shouldn't go through with my plan of taking CooP's illo and printing up some $50 tees to hawk in the BST....
shipping not included(!)
:mrgreen:

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Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:00 pm
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Post Re: Got paranoia?
BloodDrinker6969 wrote:
Question for those who hate the toy/drama/thread: Why do you keep coming back? The drama makes me laugh the toy makes me joy-vomit so I love this thread!

This!
I liked the first two colorways (Frankenruge & Garamon), but nothing since has really rung my bell. But it's mostly been a fun thread to read - some of the drama is lame, but other of the drama is comedy!

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Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:01 pm
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Post Re: Got paranoia?
I was brushing my teeth when I started to wonder about tattoos.
What about reproducing art on body part.
Does someone get royalties or get ask on that - or the tattoo guys just cash in ?


Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:10 pm
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Post Re: Got paranoia?
nefasth wrote:
I was brushing my teeth when I started to wonder about tattoos.
What about reproducing art on body part.
Does someone get royalties or get ask on that - or the tattoo guys just cash in ?


I did a set of tattoo flash a few years ago ,which sold well, but typically there is no remuneration for images used as tattoos.

If you spend any time on the BME boards, you will see discussions about tattoo artists having their designs ripped off - a one-off custom design is created for a customer, gets featured in tattoo mags, then others get the same image tattooed on themselves.

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Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:15 pm
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Post Re: Got paranoia?
nefasth wrote:
I was brushing my teeth when I started to wonder about tattoos.
What about reproducing art on body part.
Does someone get royalties or get ask on that - or the tattoo guys just cash in ?



Does Connel have to cut his arm off now?

In all seriousness, the art reuse thing is entirely a matter of being a human being enough to ask before doing, or at least before telling.

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Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:16 pm
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Post Re: Got paranoia?
Really, If you're going to spend time to make work, bviously you've got some wood carving skill. Why not render NagNagNag in your own style or pose, who knows maybe then you could have been doing the next header and getting a Nag.
Instead you copy Coop and to me it seems like a case of unoriginal fan art, like when I was a kid and copied Sam Keith covers onto envelopes and sent them into Wizard trying to win the exclusive Image platinum comic.
I'd like to see some original wood blocks. See what you can do.

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Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:24 pm
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Post Re: Got paranoia?
excellent point, dude has some carving skills, that's not something just anybody can do. I'd like to see more of your own art too.

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Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:00 pm
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Post Re: Got paranoia?
LamourSupreme wrote:
Image

Considering the blown out o-ring this guy sports, that diaper really isn't that bad.

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Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:28 pm
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Post Re: Got paranoia?
COOP wrote:
zapatoloco wrote:
can you explain what is so morally reprehensible in reproducing a drawing with no intention of profiting or claiming it as ones own ?

Should one really always seek permission from the original author of a work we seek to reproduce as an exercise ? Should we be forbiden to show the results of such an exercise ?


When you show it to the person you copied it from, with no comment or explanation, on a public forum?

Do you have a legal obligation to always seek permission? No, but when you are registered on the same message board as the artist, and can easily send a PM with a few clicks, it is lame not to do so.

Ironically, if you had been polite and asked first, I would have had no problem.

Everybody on here is always so het up about Toy Karma and doing the right thing by other collectors, I don't see why this is any different, or so hard to grasp. It's just common courtesy - all too uncommon these days, I guess.


It seems to me like you're being tried...how are people not understanding or in accord with your issue with this dude's re-appropriation of your drawing?

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Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:05 pm
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Post Re: Got paranoia?
BloodDrinker6969 wrote:
Question for those who hate the toy/drama/thread: Why do you keep coming back? The drama makes me laugh the toy makes me joy-vomit so I love this thread!



NAGNAGNAG on SB: come for the toys and art, stay for the drama!

haha, just kidding. most of us only come for the drama because we don't own the toys. However, the art and drama with the occasional toy picture alone is enough to help me get by since I don't watch a lot of T.V.

I'm totally trying for one of these until I get one though. all B.S. aside, it's really grown on me these last 50-some-odd pages.

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Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:21 pm
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Post Re: Got paranoia?
I posted that block because i thought it was a pertinent contribution to an ongoing dialogue which i had enjoyed without contributing to up to this point. It was meant to be a little rude (i mean with previous packaging involving a woman sliced in half by mutant excrement, spank the fracking politeness business already) sort of like making gross gestures at people eating in a fancy restaurant.

It's neat and unexpected to hear positive remarks about the blocks themselves, but cutting blocks is not as hard as it looks. Y'all should try it. Whats real neat is that once you've got your basic key block done you can print an infinity of different color variants of the same image with all sorts of cool fades and overprints and whatnot.

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plastichunter wrote:
I had dreams of having one of these giant magical animal heads as my own.


Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:29 pm
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Post Re: Got paranoia?
plover wrote:
At what point did this artwork become yours COOP? I'm not referring to your illustration specifically, as I believe that to be your creation, but the woodcut specifically? Perhaps zapatoloco can comment on the extend to which he actually copied your illustration because from where I'm looking they appear very different.

I'm not trying to stir the pot here but am genuinely interested in hearing your comments on this. As a designer and somebody that works with artists, photographers, illustrators etc. this is, and will continue to be controversial. And what about the creator himself? What's his take on this?


Technically it was probably Coop's when he created the drawing (in the US at least). As long as Coop had permission to create it then the drawing the woodcut is based on was probably Coop's intellectual property.

If he didn't have permission from Shigeru that'd be different generally.

There appears to be no parody, no satire, nothing to render the woodcut unique under US copyright rules.

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Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:58 pm
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Post Re: Got paranoia?
It's a little toe-stepping that you acknowledge you can print infinity with infinite color combos with a woodblock but had previously acted oblivious as to why this might piss somebody off that made the original when you posted your work in the thread the original art debuted. Not to mention you could have EASILY avoided it/possibly worked something out to do prints. Outside of the hair I don't see a huge resemblance in the two pieces. Making things strikingly similar is illegal? Also I didn't know making a drawing or whatever of an inanimate object like a toy was protected by copyrights.

I also keep checking this thread to see if one comes out that in a colorway I like, but get stuck reading comments, I just like to know who are people to avoid dealing with based on things they post :lol:


Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:15 pm
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Post Re: Got paranoia?
Quote:
you acknowledge you can print infinity with infinite color combos with a woodblock but had previously acted oblivious as to why this might piss somebody off that made the original when you posted your work


He stayed pissed off after my prompt assurances that nothing was being published or coming out of the house. Although a block such as the one that i made does hold the potential to produce multiple unauthorized copies, i would suggest that anyone with the image file, a high quality printer and some nice paper could much more easily produce a much more bankable and credible bootleg print.

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plastichunter wrote:
I had dreams of having one of these giant magical animal heads as my own.


Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:29 pm
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Post Re: Got paranoia?
Collin Shots wrote:
... Making things strikingly similar is illegal? Also I didn't know making a drawing or whatever of an inanimate object like a toy was protected by copyrights...


Outright copying others work without permission can sometimes be a problem. Ask Shepard Fairey.

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Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:32 pm
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Post Re: Got paranoia?
Image

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Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:38 pm
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Post Re: Got paranoia?
Prometheum5 wrote:


Does Connell have to cut his arm off now?

Funny you should mention that. I actually asked Glenn for the original drawings to copy from which he gladly gave to me plus a %15 discount for life of all S7 produced toys. Sometimes asking permission pays off and just for the record, I'm punk as fuck.
Now back to our regular scheduled program.

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Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:04 pm
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Post Re: Got paranoia?
Back in early June '09 Mondocoyote started this topic with its first post. Almost one year later the title of "Got paranoia?" rings more true than ever. I love that, and I still love the toy too.

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Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:13 pm
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Post Re: Got paranoia?
Enough - back to the toys! I just saw a photo of the +3 edition, and it looks genius.

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Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:20 pm
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Post Re: Got paranoia?
COOP wrote:
Enough - back to the toys! I just saw a photo of the +3 edition, and it looks genius.


I'm sure. The +3 are usually the sick mutated variants. Did you do a different header for these or just a variant of the original header. Truly psyched to see this.

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Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:58 pm
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Post Re: Got paranoia?
Different.

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haha, i think i just realized why Coop doesn't post here anymore


Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:17 pm
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Post Re: Got paranoia?
COOP wrote:
Different.


Whoa, suddenly its the 3! ...of course, I'll take a 1 of 10 anyday.


Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:47 pm
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Post Re: Got paranoia?
This is a very nice edition, or am I seduced finally by the hype? Doesn't matter, I figure, as long as I like a toy, and this one really appeals. Nice color vinyl and good paint scheme. Fantastic art and the mystery of 3 totally whacked variants -- this certainly appeals to me more than a secret base or RxH toy right now.

Coop, after the official release, any chance you could post the 3 variants photos?

Good to see the art controversy settle down. I would strongly suggest that zapatoloco send to Coop as a gift his woodcut since he freely admits that it could be used to make a print. That would probably settle things further and more permanently.

Good luck with the lottery, everyone.


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Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:33 am
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