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silent killer
Line of Credit
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:38 pm Posts: 1981 Location: FL
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i love to see the process of basicly anything being made. this was deifnitly super cool! and like said before its funny to see these factorys so small!!! did anyone catch the molding process? i couldnt really gather what they were trying to explain. they pour and swirl in that mold? but if thats true how do they get the guy out?
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Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:33 pm |
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VELOCITRON
Comment King
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:49 pm Posts: 1437 Location: BURST CITY
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Yeah, I really wanted to see that as well. I think the actual production of the figures goes on at a "real" plastics factory. If I understood him correctly, there's an autoclave-like machine that spins the mold with the liquid vinyl in it to get it hollow. I always wondered about the demolding process myself, especially since the molds are clearly one-piece affairs and there aren't mold lines on vinyls. I've heard that since the vinyl is still soft they just pop it out, but I have yet to see proof!
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Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:44 pm |
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jebcrow
Side Dealer
Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 4:11 pm Posts: 2253 Location: lahn-dahn
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silent killer wrote: i love to see the process of basicly anything being made. this was deifnitly super cool! and like said before its funny to see these factorys so small!!! did anyone catch the molding process? i couldnt really gather what they were trying to explain. they pour and swirl in that mold? but if thats true how do they get the guy out?
a big hairdryer
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Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:15 pm |
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3x3is9
Addicted
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:25 am Posts: 890
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silent killer wrote: i love to see the process of basicly anything being made. this was deifnitly super cool! and like said before its funny to see these factorys so small!!! did anyone catch the molding process? i couldnt really gather what they were trying to explain. they pour and swirl in that mold? but if thats true how do they get the guy out?
They just grab the extra vinyl and yank with big tongs.
Last edited by 3x3is9 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:19 pm |
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sndbyte
Toy Prince
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:41 pm Posts: 437 Location: SF
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Thanks for posting this video. M1 has made some great figures and they are what I primarily collect... so this video was a real treat.
thanks again!
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Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:43 pm |
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Deadbone
Line of Credit
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:07 am Posts: 1871 Location: Terra Australis
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Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:24 pm |
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Winu
S7 Royalty
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 12:49 am Posts: 3578 Location: San Diego, CA
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Great video! Baikin, you're a lucky mofo!
Thanks for sharing! 
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Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:47 pm |
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gatchabert
Prototype
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:41 pm Posts: 6389 Location: 415
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Roto-casting might be what Yuji is explaining. The plastic is heated then poured into the mold and then it gets spun around til it cools down a bit. Once it is hardened up a bit, the grab the flash (excess plastic that is sometimes cut off...like the Skkullbees that were sold in a box and you had to cut off the excess plastic to put it together) which in most cases is the neck or where the shoulder meets the body. Before it is put together, they dunk it in water (usually cold) to force the plastic to stiffen up and keep it's shape. The tricky part is the pull from the mold. Too much twisting to get the piece out can deform it. Dunking the piece in water quickens the curing time for the vinyl. As we all know, you can heat up vinyl with a hairdryer. If you heat a piece up enough and then force it to a different shape but, vinyl has some memory properties which is why it will go back to the shape it was...but that can be altered with a good amount of heat and some cold water. I could be wrong since it's been years since I sat in a Materials and Manufacturing class.
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Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:02 am |
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Zaaier
Line of Credit
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:23 pm Posts: 1732 Location: belgium
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Amazing videos to kick off a sunny saturday. I'd be interested to hear more stories concerning the vinyl being poured into the mold.
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Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:33 am |
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Roger
Mini Boss
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:41 pm Posts: 4909
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Gatchabert pretty much explained it. The manufacturing of M1GO's figures doesn't take place there, I'm not sure where the factory is but it's the same one that makes Marmit's stuff.
I have a TV show on DVD (it's on the way, Hillsy) that shows the vinyl factory Marusan uses. I'll see if I can get permission to post it online.
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Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:24 am |
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locomoto566
Super Deformed
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 3:00 pm Posts: 5466 Location: right behind you
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Dennis is a rock star!
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Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:11 am |
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ribbon controller
S7 Royalty
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:25 am Posts: 3494 Location: Earth
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that'd be cool if you could post it.I would love to see it!
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Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:11 am |
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devilboy
Mini Boss
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:44 pm Posts: 4644 Location: HELL
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rad...rad...and rad.
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Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:32 am |
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ElvisFromHell
Comment King
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:19 am Posts: 1472
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Roger wrote: Gatchabert pretty much explained it. The manufacturing of M1GO's figures doesn't take place there, I'm not sure where the factory is but it's the same one that makes Marmit's stuff.
Interesting Roger, because I've always found M1 vinyl to be superior in feel to Marmit's - it's always felt like a higher quality vinyl to me in terms of heft and finish. i've always assumed it's because M1 uses a different manufacturing plant or process (or different formula for vinyl) than Marmit. That doesn't mean Marmit and M1 can't come from the same factory - but maybe they each have their own vinyl formulas or tweak the manufacturing process in their own way to account for the differences.
In fact, I'd always assumed that Marmits were made in China because they have a noticeably "cheaper" feeling to me. Especially the old VP series.
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Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:27 am |
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Roger
Mini Boss
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:41 pm Posts: 4909
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ElvisFromHell wrote: Interesting Roger, because I've always found M1 vinyl to be superior in feel to Marmit's - it's always felt like a higher quality vinyl to me in terms of heft and finish. i've always assumed it's because M1 uses a different manufacturing plant or process (or different formula for vinyl) than Marmit. That doesn't mean Marmit and M1 can't come from the same factory - but maybe they each have their own vinyl formulas or tweak the manufacturing process in their own way to account for the differences.
In fact, I'd always assumed that Marmits were made in China because they have a noticeably "cheaper" feeling to me. Especially the old VP series. The switch to Marmit's factory only took place a couple of years ago, after M1GO's original supplier, Mommy Doll, shut down. Incidentally, Mommy Doll was the original spin-off company that Marusan established in the 60s to make vinyl stuff.
I don't know if Marmit was always using this factory, either, but there's a noticeable difference in quality between something like the present-day Hukkokudo reissues (Marmit's stuff) and the crap Marmit was making ten years ago.
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Sat Apr 26, 2008 11:22 am |
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cae
Toy Prince
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:00 pm Posts: 256 Location: PT, WA
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The roto-casting process is interesting and all (the dvd is awesome) but what I really want to know is how they make the molds.
I'm acquainted with a few methods of metal casting and find the process on these one piece molds intriguing. What do they use for investment?
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Sat Apr 26, 2008 11:35 am |
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silent killer
Line of Credit
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:38 pm Posts: 1981 Location: FL
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thanks for the explanations guys, i had thought maybe thats how it was done but i thought it might have been a little crazy. guess it is : ) it does make sense considering how soft you can get the vinyl when you heat it up. i would also love to see more on this, if that dvd could be posted that would be so cool!! thanks again for the post definitely very cool! and like winu i was watching the whole time thinking this lucky guy, this lucky guy!
ooo, ooo, i know, i know!! we all hafto e mail the history channel and get them to do a "how its made" on Japanese Vinyl!!!!
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Sat Apr 26, 2008 12:03 pm |
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backtrack
S7 Royalty
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:55 pm Posts: 3093 Location: London
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So was that like a colour key sheet on the door that he held it up to?
I assume after about 25 of the same colourway, you know what it's meant to look like, but initially they must get a map of sorts, right?
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Sat Apr 26, 2008 12:10 pm |
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rhinomilk
Vintage
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 4:15 pm Posts: 7136 Location: Bay Area
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that's so rad to see how a pro does it
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Sat Apr 26, 2008 12:20 pm |
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Shirahama
Side Dealer
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:45 pm Posts: 2207
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If I remember correctly the rest of the DVD is fashion and music, no more toy stuff.
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Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:16 pm |
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ElvisFromHell
Comment King
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:19 am Posts: 1472
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here's another question for anyone in the know - I've always assumed that B-Club and M1 used the old Bullmark and Marusan molds for reissues (like the smog monster, Godzilla, etc.) but I've also noticed that people sometimes comment that the M1 smoggy or some of the other "reissues" are sometimes slightly larger or smaller than the originals. Is M1, B-Club and the others using the actual vintage molds or are all of those old molds so shot, lost or whatever that they've made nearly identical recasts of the molds themselves?
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Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:18 pm |
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Roger
Mini Boss
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:41 pm Posts: 4909
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ElvisFromHell wrote: here's another question for anyone in the know - I've always assumed that B-Club and M1 used the old Bullmark and Marusan molds for reissues (like the smog monster, Godzilla, etc.) but I've also noticed that people sometimes comment that the M1 smoggy or some of the other "reissues" are sometimes slightly larger or smaller than the originals. Is M1, B-Club and the others using the actual vintage molds or are all of those old molds so shot, lost or whatever that they've made nearly identical recasts of the molds themselves? Sometimes they use the vintage Marusan/Bullmark molds, but occasionally they will have access to the "master mold," the one that the other molds were based off of. These master mold toys are slightly larger, and it's hardly noticeable.
When those older molds are used they sometimes have to use older machinery that can't produce toys with the usual thick vinyl. If anyone has any of M1GO's original Marusan Godzilla resissues, they'll notice that the vinyl is much thinner than their normal stuff.
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Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:35 pm |
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gatchabert
Prototype
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:41 pm Posts: 6389 Location: 415
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cae wrote: The roto-casting process is interesting and all (the dvd is awesome) but what I really want to know is how they make the molds.
I'm acquainted with a few methods of metal casting and find the process on these one piece molds intriguing. What do they use for investment?
My guess is they sculpt it with a kind of clay or even wax. Wax might be the best bet since it is a single mold. What they might do is make the sculpt, make a 2 part mold and cast it using wax, clean up the parting lines, and use the wax figure for the one piece mold. You can guess what they do with the wax figure inside the one piece mold
Now this is just my guess as to how they do it. They might be using a different method all together.
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Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:04 pm |
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ironking
Fresh Meat
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:19 am Posts: 94 Location: BOSTON
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When I was talking with Marmit about the Sky Deviler figure I went to one of the factories located in Saitama (They have 5 factories if I remember correctly) They make stuff for Amapro, Sunguts, Gigabrain, Empiya among others. The process of making them is as follows.
1. Clay sculpt
2. Wax transfer
The clay is cut up into parts, arms, legs, etc. and joint connectors are added. An intermediate mold is then made. The parts are cast in Wax and given some finishing touches/clean up.
3. The mould
The wax parts are put into an electroplating tank for two weeks. (The waiting is the hardest part)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroplating
They can explain it better than me but I can tell you its very toxic.
4. The casting
Japanese Vinyl is not Rotomolded as many believe it is slush cast. The vinyl comes in a liquid form called Plastisol, the same stuff most T-shirts are printed with here in the U.S. (I was a screenprint major, minored in sculpture) The mold is filled up with the liquid vinyl and put into a ceterfuge. This is what was being referred to in the video. It is spun for 30 to 45 seconds. This step removes all the air pockets. I hear some places use a vacuum chamber. Next the mold is suspended into a vat of water that is heated up to 300 degrees. Wait, what's this, the water isn't boiling over? They put a white powder into the water that prevents it from boiling. I don't know the chemical name for this as they only knew the japanese word for it. So the mold sits in the bath and cooks the vinyl. The longer its in the thicker the vinyl gets. After a minute or three they take it out and drain the excess back into the vinyl storage tank and put it back into the tub for another minute of two. Finally its taken out and put into a rig to hold it as someone yanks it out with a pair or pliers. The parts are thrown into a box to be sent to the trimer.
5. The trim
The trimmer cuts off the flash with an exacto blade and drills out the holes and its sent off to the painter.
6. The Paint
The painter lives 10 minutes down the road. He sits on the floor of his porch/workshop. He paints them in parts. In the hour I was there He painted 200+ legs with silver spray. No respirator just a big hood sucking all the fumes and cig smoke.
7. Assembly
Seven steps to satisfaction
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Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:37 pm |
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Paulkaiju
S7 Royalty
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 1:40 pm Posts: 3847 Location: SD
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This is an awesome post!
ironking wrote: Next the mold is suspended into a vat of water that is heated up to 300 degrees. Wait, what's this, the water isn't boiling over? They put a white powder into the water that prevents it from boiling. I don't know the chemical name for this as they only knew the japanese word for it.
I do believe it is sodium.
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Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:08 pm |
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