Hmmm, an unfortunate attempt to make this personal. Race baiting is far left shit Loco. Congrats. I'll ignore your petty insinuation.




Peter, no can do until you answer my earlier request in this thread to illustrate how our Governor of Massachusetts, who basically ran on the same platform, has brought about "change we can believe in."

BTW, I thought the fist bump was fun. New Yorker cover was not.

Autodactyl, logang1, redhanded, and Locomoco: cool it with the racism insinuations. Stick to the issues.

Being a life long registered Republican, I generally prefer the government to be small, with low taxes, and one that supports the development of community over me-first cronic individualism.

Having said that, I also strongly agree with this country's founding fathers, particularly in having separation between church and state, that all men are created equal- no matter what country they come from or what religion they practice, in freedom of speech instead of censorship, and the right to bare arms in order to quell machinations such as the militarized industrial machine.

The Republican Party likes to paint Obama as a "tax and spend" candidate, though I would prefer this to a "no tax and just spend" administration such as the one currently in office. Also, the Republican Party likes to talk of our current federal legislature as the "do-nothing Congress," though fails to point out that the President has made no effort whatsoever to reach across the aisle in order to pass any legislation and has threatened to veto any Democrat-initiated bill that crosses his desk, effectively forcing congress to have a 2/3 majority in order to pass any bill, which is damn near impossible with all the Republican congressmen and women sitting happily on thier hands.

Personally, I find the Neo-Conservatives and those from the Religious Right to have perverted the Republican Party irreconcilably with injustices such as those this administration has fostered such as foriegn policy based on the neo-conservative idea of the "Middle East Domino Effect" where capitalism is just supposed to spread throughout the region if only they have the chance to experience it, not much unlike their last failure with the similarly named "East Asian Domino Effect" which helped to instigate the Vietnam War. To me, these "Republicans" represents the polar opposite of those ideals this country was founded on.

Dying for a miami rebuttal here.....

You know what, I'm tired of people being bashed for having some ethnic pride or having issues with the historical treatment of minorities and it's immediately decried as "playing the race card". Unfortunately, in this country, Caucasians have had the power to pretty much dictate how American citizens of non-Caucasian background can be treated. If you don't recognize that, then you're blind.

Michelle Obama has issues with the way America has treated African Americans, I have an issue with the way Asian Americans have been treated. Specifically, my Japanese-American parents and grandparents who were Naturalized and native born American citizens, but had all their property and civil rights stripped from them during WW2. My families lost everything, and I only had 5 (of 15 interned) relatives alive to receive the governmental reparations and apology. I lost family members held in internment camps because they were so secluded that they were unable to receive basic medical attention. Oh, but that's just me being an "anti-American hater" playing the race card.

It's so flip and convenient for someone like Logang to just throw out his little "race card" statement to minimize some of the issues that aren't so easy to look back on with national pride. Let's just create a catch phrase, and pretend it never happened.

The founding fathers of our nation knew that it was impossible to create a perfect country... hence their desire to create a "more perfect" nation. One can have issues with our country's history, and that doesn't make them "anti-American" or "haters" as Logang has branded Michelle Obama. Just seems like a very convenient, tidy cop out that the conservative right has come up with that's being parroted here.

I can't help it if the "race card" comment is almost universally used by non-minorities in this country, hence my comment... nothing personal intended... just American history.

First of all, you don't know what race anyone is here, we're just words on a screen.

Secondly, putting aside anywhere else the term "race card" is used, let's see how it was used here.

Scroll back to page 5 and you will see logang1 criticizing Michelle Obama as being anti-American. You will then see Autodactyl pointing out that she is a "strong black woman with an opinion" and that some people don't like that, implying that logang1 harbors racist and/or sexist views. Then redhanded accused Autodactyl of "race baiting," then logang1 accused Autodactyl of playing the "race card."

That's exactly where it started. Nobody was discussing Michelle Obama's race or gender, but it was brought into the discussion as a means to defend her. It's cheap, and it avoids the issue of what she actually said. (And to see what she said, go to page 7.)

First off, I've met Logang, so let's put that to rest please...

So what? I've met you, and I never made any assumptions about your race, nor did I ever think I had to.

Some much needed levity:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=184086&title=sarah-palin-gender-card

A truer statement could not be made. Today's "Republican" is vastly different from what it meant to be a Republican several decades ago. Today's Democrat is more similar to yesteryear's Republican. Republican presidents of the past have been proponents of social programs, have granted equality to those that previously did not have it, stimulated the economy with programs aimed at increasing the labor force, etc, etc. Today's "Republican" is looking to privatize all social programs, are vehemently trying to keep inequality in several sectors, and are more concerned about increasing domestic oil production to fix the economy than they are in putting people back to work.
The Republican Party has been dead for decades.

So you're merely citing American history?? Bullshit.




And?????

Did you get some impression of me that you didn't care for? Sorry the feeling wasn't mutual, but I thought it was good to meet you.

No, I'm merely stating that I do know what race you are, and that Roger's gross assumption was incorrect.

So do you change you ridiculous tune when you come to realize I'm part Mexican? Please feel free to insert foot in mouth. You don't even know me dude.

Ok, so you decided to keep this personal (which I believe Roger pointed out as well) but you still can't bait me into your baseless, factless argument. Your opinions are yours alone, and you are entitled to them.

I'll choose to stick to the issues, if you don't mind.



This is a true statement, yet the Democratic nominee is a resounding jab at that stereotypical assessment of this country. That IS change.

I'm willing to concede part of a foot.

And as I have said... it was a comment on the utilization of the term "race card" and the people who usually raise it up, and that you merely used it to dismiss the validity of comments made by Michelle Obama.

Loco, that's not what happened. Go back to page 6 and you will see that logang1 never brought up her race. Her race and gender was raised by Autodactyl to dismiss logang1's criticism of her statements. Logang1 then accused Autodactyl of playing the "race card."

(And for the record, I think that both of these things take us further and further away from actual discussion of the issues here.)

Time for me to munch on a toe or two. I didn't see logang's response on page 7 after his responses to Autodactyl that said:

However, he follows up with:
Obviously, he's not dismissing everything the Obamas say out of hand, and I agree with him: they can win without having to resort to reminders about his African heritage.

Imagine if nobody on either side ever brought that up, or Biden or McCain's age, or Palin's vagina, and actually stuck to the issues being discussed. Would it be refreshing or boring?

when the fuck did we get ice cream?

I guess I need someone to explain to me what the 'Race Card' even is. The first I ever heard the term was during the OJ trial as Simpson's defense team interjected a bogus allegation of racism ( by mark Fuhrman) to get him (undeservedly, IMHO) exonerated. The keyword in my mind being 'BOGUS'. It seems now, though, the term has lost it's meaning and the accusation of 'pulling the race card' is generally trotted out any time a white person starts losing an argument to a person of color and the merest mention of skin color was made.

As for 'strong black woman' ..well that is what she is. True, there are those who dislike strong women, regardless of race, but there are also just as many that dislike 'uppity blacks', regardless of their gender. Why did noone accuse anyone else of 'playing the gender card?' Those that pretend the race issues in America are resolved and that the historical/ongoing struggles of black people isn't still a valid issue to be raised must either be living in an ivory tower someplace and/or spend too much time listening to Right Wing talk radio. We've made a lot of strides on the race issue, but this country is faaaaar from being color-blind..until it is, we white folk are just going to have to suck it up and stop whining every time someone dare bring up our shameful history.

I personally believe that Mccain's age has not been discussed enough. He is 72. Sure his mother is 95 but his father and grandfather died at 70 and 61 respectively. Although I can't say I agree with the majority(if any) of Mccain's policies regardless, I would find it impossible to vote for Mccain knowing that it is not impossible that Sarah Palin will have to run our country sometime in the next four years. Sure, she has executive experience. It's in a state that has had to resort to using federal dollars to support it's infrastructure. And with Palin inexperience is only the tip of the iceberg. The programs and positions she supports are archaic and unfit for the globalized economy and geo-political world we live in. I truly don't know who I would have been more scared of, Joe Lieberman, or Palin.

is mccain's neck articulated? he looked like a robot last night

Wikipedia has a good entry on how people use the term:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_card

The basic idea is this: a person who belongs to race X can "play" this card, saying, "I'm from race X," to use it as a reason why he/she should or should be considered for something, or excused for doing something, etc. Sometimes the card can be played for them by someone else.

For instance, one person can criticize the content of Obama's words, and then a second person who disagrees can say, "You're just saying that because he's black."

Another person can say that Obama deserves votes because he's black. Some people are accusing him of doing that himself.

Ever see that Chapelle Show sketch where Black Frankenstein, Black Mummy, and Black Wolfman all have their various troubles with their jobs, relationships, etc., and blame society for treating them differently because they're black, but their problems really exist because of their monsterism? Similar idea.

It may not be. I believe one of the first injuries he sustained as a POW was having his collar bone broken with a rifle butt. I don't think he can raise his hands above shoulder level, either.

if you can't 'wave em in the air like you just dont care', i think you should be DQed from the presidential campaign

DQ=Dairy Queen? What's with the ice cream references? ;p