Great thread! IMO there is really not much i would change about the sales methods used. Love the various run sizes and chanels. I think many of my fellow collectors don't find it hard to spend there toy budget even when they miss a couple of these toys due to the sales method. I am not feeling a run of mass produced grail pieces. Love the hunt for a limited toy.

My experiance as many of you already stated.
Elegab - Perfect in every way. Mainly because I am able to get the releases i want and his service is great. Doesn't happen often Nari takes more than 5 minutes to answer my email.
Zollmen - Perfect as well. Love the Zollmen diversity. Love the the hunt through the various sales chanels. Plus i like the fact thats its a bit harder to get the Japanese only releases. Overall chances are great getting a zollmen toy.
Bemon - Not liking the YJP sales method, mainly because i can't afford it. But I'm glad all the profit goes to Mr. Bemon. Something to "One/some day" about.
NAGNAGNAG; Glad I was able to win a lottery;) I like the small run sizes plus the fact everybody who follows can enter.
Anraku Ansaku; C'mon closed list.

Summarizing i agree with some of you lottery is the best way to let everyone have a toy. It sucks this method gives room for flippers and whole families signing up. But its better than not being on a closed list!

Like Blooddrinker sayd; The only fair distro method is selling to me, and me only!

I like the stuff that I can buy in stores. Fuck closed sale lists, lotteries and official auctions. I do my gambling in Vegas.

That said, Mark Nagata handles the Max Toy Club really well. For $60, you get a 'free' ~$60 toy and early access to a number of their exclusive toys. Great deal. Seems like a fair way to do things.

Glad I prefer toys I don't have to jump through fuckin' hoops for . . .

Remember when you had to jump through hoops for anything? When "Real Head" on eBay was nothing but customized GI Joe parts or weird animal heads? Remember when shit was only sold at fest's in Japan, then to YJA, MAYBE!? Now we want special runs, made to order, "Easy to get" custom made for us catered to our small community like we're the reason these small companies (of 1 or a few people doing all the work by hand) got into this? When low runs of toys weren't met with moans and whines of "why don't they make MORE!?" because we were just excited to see the stuff coming out? Whatever. Just some thoughts.

That said, I'll say it again, there's no "fair" way for anything. If you're going to "boycott" any of these (small indie) companies I hope you boycott major corporations too for the way they do things (that are about 2904812094812059 x more horrible than some small artist just making what they love and distributing it in the way that fits their life and needs.) But if you're using a computer I doubt you do. When your computer dies and you toss it and it's parts are sent to Africa or Asia in huge heaps to have the metals and chemicals hand melted out of them by kids you'll be sitting proud thinking about how you didn't buy into those Japanese vinyl toy bullshit games

How about we all lighten up, and have fun again instead starting threads of nothing but whining or "fuck you" threads? I can't get lots of shit, of course I get pissed, then I chill and remember that that will do me no good and it's all in fun and I appreciate what I can get and have and I appreciate what I CAN'T get.

Truth!

I see some comments that that show some folks believe the goal of these makers is, or should be, to produce as many toys as possible and to spread them out amongst the widest audience possible.

I think taking a quick look at the history of some of these makers will show why that is just not true.

Back when Bemon first started, the toys came in small runs of 30(?). Each figure recieved a unique paint job and was individually photographed and featured on a poster that was packed with each figure sold. Obviously he wasn't trying to reach a mass audience with this approach. Just a guy making a toy for the love of sofubi and selling a few at shows. As Bemons have caught on and become more popular, the maker has tried to accomodate more fans or rake in more profit, depending on your point of view, by releasing Bemons grouped in "runs". This way there would be a group of identical figures to go around.

So, if he is now producing 30 identical figures in each run, that represents a huge increase to the original one-offs. But, if the design is desireable enough there will still not be enough to go to every Bemon fan that might want one. Should the maker now produce 300? 3000? At some point he will exceed the demand, or more likely smother the demand by flooding the market (Space Troopers anyone?).

If a maker, like Anraku for example, has gone from making all individually painted one-offs to making limited runs of 10 and larger runs of 30-50 for regular releases, this represents a major increase of output. Especially for a one person operation. Even more so when the maker is an older person with health issues. How many more would you like the guy to make?

These makers mostly started out as guys selling a few obscure vinyls at events, catering to a tiny niche market but mostly just making what they enjoyed. When we went crazy for their stuff and drove up demand, some could keep pace and some could not, or would not.

The point is, it's up to the individual makers to find the balance that works for them. We might not like how they work it out, but it's not up to us.

In the same way, it's up to the makers to decide what system to use for selling his/her toys. Alot of people do not like the mailing list system but from Anraku's point of view it may be working perfectly. He has cut out the professional Japanese flippers which were his major concern and he is making more toys than ever and selling out. He may not even be aware how great the actual demand is beyond his mailing list. Or he may know but he feels he is doing the most that he can already.

Some interesting points for keeping systems 'as is' from Bloodrinker but I think you are missing the fact that there are ALOT more people collecting these toys then a few years ago. Supply and demand aren't what they use to be. It's easy for you to make light of people desiring to be on a Anraku list when you're on it (and no I don't want to be on it). Also why must you insist that any counter point to yours is 'whining' or a 'fuck you thread'. Didn't you just say you only like a system that benefits you and you alone? Even joking, I mean it seems shallow to leave veiled posts saying everyone else is just a whiner.

Alex put this thread up as a debate thread and all points should be considered. So you're saying boycotting a small japanese company for what one considers 'unfair' selling practices and choosing to buy from other vinyl companies instead, that person is a fool for not boycotting major corporations also? That doesn't make sense to me? I'm not here to argue the validity of how major corporations/ multi nationals fuck us in the ass every day. I'm sure everyone can make their own decisions on what they can, and can't live without in the convenient modern life we all live. I'm choosing to stay on topic. If we all went that route we'd leave our possessions behind and live in a cave somewhere.

I like the debate and for the record I think the way Nari/Elegab sells is the best and fairest way. No middleman, not many people left out, and everyone has a shot. Sure not everyone can sell this way but I really don't see many Elegab toys flipped. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I'm standing behind mine 100%.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned that some open runs are still sought after. Like how there was plenty of time for people to grab the recent blobpus ollie but I still see a lot of people with it on their want list. Probably people that didnt have the funds at the moment but I wouldnt doubt that the blobpus ollie could be flipped even though it was an open run.

Yeah, i guess most of them went to good homes. I did not see many of them pop up but then again i did no need to look for one anymore. Big run, easy access, flipper proof;)

That may be the case NOW...but it wasn't always. I bet there's still a SB piece here and there I could get you to jump for!

I don't think about this as much as I used to...I've come to the point that I'm really happy if I can get a toy I want, and bummed if I can't, but I get over it. I'll I FART A LOT about it while making conversation, but I don't freak out like I used to. There was once a time when I made things, and when I did I would have been PISSED if someone told me how many to make or how to get them into people's hands...so I get it, completely, no matter how people choose to put their stuff out there.

Someone will make a cool toy in the future that will ease the pain of missing the one made yesterday.

All I'm saying is that they're toys. It's fun. Even when I miss something or can't get it or have no avenue to get it, I find it fun. It seems like a lot of people are taking this junk too seriously and (like the name of the thread suggests) there's a lot of complaining. Complaining = whining when it's about toys and not real world problems in my book.

My overall point was let's just have fun. This thread is very negative, the "fuck you" thread that existed was way too negative. I think there's too much focus on negative crap lately (like the last 2 years?) here. It sucks.

There's very little debating and just a lot of bashing any system of sales that isn't made for order or (sometimes) lotteries. It's complaining. It's whining. Sometimes it's backhanded insults to the makers and other members. It's easy for me to make fun because it's ridiculous.

I'm gonna go have fun with toys, even one's I can't get.

I FART A LOT = best word filter ever

Pre-order sales!! That's the way to go. Limit 1 per and a window of a week. Some people will still miss the window but there will be less crying about not getting the toy.
That is the answer. Screw all the exclusivity.

Nice idea, but it relies on the maker having the time and inclination to paint 30/ 40 or however many toys.

Most of these people have full time jobs. The last thing they want would be their hobby turning into a chore for our benefit.

Maybe consider some factories over there that particular people use, only DO small runs?

I hate debating about this personally because I have a very different view into this. Although I think Alex's last post is a good one.



exactly. There is a lot of assumption going on here. It's not all black and white when it comes to small run manufacturing. Also to the rest of the world, anything under 1000 is considered small run. It easy to forget how crazy it is that in this day in age, people are making vinyl toys in small runs. That is something, that is jaded as I become sometimes, I will always love about these toys. A dead technology is being used for traditions sake.



I did this for a reason but can't remember why. ha

I love this sentence so much. It is the nicest way to put a thought I could not form into words about this stuff.

I wonder if Bemons would be as popular if everyone could get them and they had a different colorway every other month.

i kind of doubt it.

Personally if a Two-Headed Bemon came out every other month for $150, i'd probably get at least a dozen in my favorite colorways.