Lisa and I usually avoid huge crowds but we are going to the civic center tonight to see Obama speak.

Full report in the morning.

If you get the chance, please ask him if he's still up for sending troops to Pakistan.

(He was the only Democrat that I remotely liked and he lost me with that.)

longest line ever.

I like the fact he knows this will lose votes, but he says what his intentions are anyway. Fuck the status quo politics of telling us what we want to hear and not following through.

tell that dude I dont care what he's doing he owes me money for dope.

I definitely respect it, too, but it was just the wrong thing to say.Well, you really can't judge whether or not Obama fits that statement until he's had a term in office.

True, we can't make a judgement on that statement, but right or wrong he said what he said and not what you wanted to hear to get a vote. I like that, but that doesn't mean I will vote for him (or anybody else) for that reason alone, I find it refreshing.

so after waiting in line for an hour with 10,000 other people Lisa and I gave up and went to a noodle shop.

Sadly I have still never seen Obama speak.

It's cool that you tried but it doesn't surprise me to read that it was crowded past capacity. Hope the noodles were good enough to make up for any disappointment!

He obviously didn't say what I wanted to hear, but what makes you think that he didn't say it to get a vote?

Could be, but I see a statement like that losing more votes than it would gain, all speculation.

you make it sound as if he wanted to go to war with them.

the question had to do with whether or not he would move in on bin laden in pakistan w/o pakistan's permission (hope I'm thinking of same thing you're thinking of). think he made the right call.

honestly, they haven't been all that helpful in catching the guy. and with all the drama going on right now, I don't think they deserve any favors/courtesy.

by the way, I like obama. not a fan of clinton.

I dont care for Clinton and I think her husband did a lot of bad things, like pushing Nafta, but I figure she uses the same people Bill used and we had money back then therefor I am giving her a lot of consideration.

Some right winger told me the other day the reason our country is going broke is because Bush is spending so much money trying to help everybody. I patted her gently on the shoulder and said, "ah, how cute, you watch fox news dont you." She was peeved after that.

Sure sounds like it to me. Unless violating the borders of an allied military dictatorship can be seen as a friendly act.Are you surprised at that reaction?

sure isn't friendly, but it's not an act of war.

funny how no one complained about israel bombing the crap out of lebanon when they were trying to take out hezbollah. did they have the okay from lebanon? no. but they sure had the okay from the u.s.

and obama was only saying he would move in IF pakistan was being difficult. he wasn't being cowboy about it a la bush.

What are you talking about? You didn't see anyone take issue with this when it was happening?And the problem with this is that a politician can parse "difficult" as much as he/she wants to suit their purposes.

My issue with Obama's statement is this: he doesn't even have his finger on the trigger yet, and whether he was sincere or not, he was already showing that he's ready to pull it. At this point, America can't afford to shoot from the hip like this, even verbally, or even hypothetically. It's a far cry from Bush's "Axis of Evil" speech, but haven't we had enough saber rattling?

There is no such thing as a good war, or a bad peace.

I still don't see this "war" you think would materialize. personally, if the president has a chance to catch/kill bin laden along the afganistan/pakistan border, I say go for it.



I would say that war is not necessarily good, you're right, but some wars are necessary. world war two is a good example.

You tell me. You're the one who introduced the word into this conversation.

But since you brought it up, I addressed it hypothetically: if I am a sovereign nation, and someone violates my borders using military action, I can consider it an act of war. And I would bet good money that someone like Musharraf would.

Regarding the World War II issue, please see the "I heard that the guy who made Bemon hates Americans" thread. ;p

You still took bloody ages to turn up!!

(j/k by the way )

Actually, it is.



And that was an act of war IN a war. If we violated Pakistani territory without permission, regardless of the reason, we'd have a difficult time convincing anyone else it wasn't an act of war. The UN would certainly see it as an act of war. And the country itself is barely being held together between the tribal held border regions, the central government, and the military and ISI, with members loyal to one or the other, caught in-between. If we went in, we'd certainly lose ANY support we have from the main government. I don't argue that the Pakistani border region is trouble and something needs to be done, but you're fooling yourself if you don't think incursion isn't an act of war.

I'm not talking about an incursion. I'm thinking more like a precise bomb drop on him if we have the intelligence. clinton almost got him in such a way. I agree, bringing in troops would be a bad idea.

but it shouldn't be an issue. why would pakistan say no if we have a shot at the guy?

irrelevant.



don't think so. I think the implication with obama's stance is that pakistan should be on the same page when it comes to catching/killing bin laden. as I said, I don't see why pakistan should get in the way.

this is bin laden we're talking about. personally, I think we should make every effort to get this guy.

yeah, you're right! haha.