As a general rule, I hate the modern chugga chugga metalcore but Botch...

I just got the dvd of their last show and they were just awesome. We are the Romans and America Nervosa are absolutely inspired records. The songs are ahead of their time and the recordings are beautiful.

probably not a good time to mention ACH is it?

(Bryan, feel free to wield full mod powers on this post)

is this where i get to rip on bryan ala making fun of dnb fans with camo pants?

"chugga chugga"

Botch fans seem to be way fanatical...I've always thought that they might be a band I'd like but just never got any albums.... one's that have stood the test of time for me...i.e. I can still listen to without cringing:

Damnation a.d.
Integrity
Endeavor
Deadguy
Ringworm!
Unbroken
108(although some would argue if you could call this metalcore)

I'm sure there are other but this is all I can think of at 3am

Botch towards the end of their career were amazing. I've seen them live over the years and they just got better and better. Proud as fuck to have been label mates at one point.

yay botch! it has been far to long since i have listened to these guys. i am going to change that, right now.
give um some credit though, i wouldn't axactly call them chug chug, just because they are a little more dance-able than coleasce, haha. i was a dance monster as a little girl and even i knew i would have looked like an ass doing that gay shit at a botch show.

Fuck is that dvd finally out??? Id given up hope, saw them at the El Ray with RFTC and they blew rocket away....now if that damn page 99 dvd would appear that would be a night in front of the tv.

blowing RFTC away is quite a statement, I can't say ive seen many bands come close. to this day, rftc is probably the best live show ive ever seen hands down.

I, on the otherhand, hope nothing with pg99's name on it ever comes out again.

ha ! i love that 10" pg 99 put out , i saw rocket a bunch of times and they were alaways amazing, but Botch were on fire that night fucking brutal.

Botch was fun to see live but was way too spastic in their sound.

i never got into them more than a casual listen and the sabbath cover 7".

I think the thing with Botch is you either don't get it, appreciate it but it doesn't tickle you, or it blows you away.

It's hard to lump them with chugga bands, but their influence on that genre is too blatant to be ignored. Their sound was challenging because it is spazzy, and mathy with weird time and rhythm stuff but bands like Botch and Coalesce made it ok to not be so straight ahead in hardcore but still manage to be super heavy. They both gave a certain groove to hardcore that it never had before. Whereas they expanded the repertoire of hardcore, bands like integrity and ringworm just took the established precepts of the genre and took them to the extreme. Not that that is a bad thing, it's just different.


(jackie- my camo pants are back from the cleaners, but those bastards shrunk my bucket cap so i look like a yogi bear when i wear it... what is a bear to do?)

anybody into acme from germany?
I really think of them as the most underrated bands of the sort. even though it came out on edison I think alot of people skipped over it,

One of my good friends was crazy about botch when they were around and it just occrured to me that he now works at a label that put out the aforementioned albums. I will have him send me some and I will give it a good listen at the well informed suggestion of this board.

they were completely underrated...

i'm sure i can find a hoodrat around here somewhere with a spare bucket cap... ^_^

i have the first acme 7" kickin around somewhere

Botch is good, but not the greatest in my opinion. too bad they broke up so some of the dudes could play in crappy Minus The Bear.

some finer examples of that style:

Cave In - Beyond Hypothermia (way better than Until Your Heart Stops, I don't care what anyone says)

Integrity - Humanity Is The Devil (Pushead artwork!!!)

Morser - crazy German band with 4 singers. I guess this may be a little too grindy to fit into this category, but nevertheless.

I hate Minus the Bear...

I agree with Beyond Hypothermia over Until your Heart Stops. Beyond is magical while, Until just fell short. It had some great riffs though.

I could never get into Integrity with all the Dwid stories and shit.

The one band that I really loved a ton but never saw was Barrit. It was a Bane side project that was straight up riffy metal before most hardcore kids really cared about that stuff.

One the other side of hardcore, I totally loved His Hero is Gone, Uranus, etc.

I saw Barrit once. I always thought they were alright, but nothing spectacular. the songs were a little overly long I felt.

the one memorable thing about seeing them was that it was a warehouse show and it was so cold (the place had no heat) that the singer wore huge ski gloves throughout the whole performance, which I thought was funny.

with the exception of a few bands, I generally wish that hardcore kids never did start to care about that stuff.

then maybe Headbangers Ball would still be watchable, rather than some showcase for crappy Victory and Ferret bands every week.

I really think acmes's discog "reduce the choir to one soloist" is amazing. Though I think a big allure is that there is really not much known about them. due to the fact that they decided not to take any photos of themselves or do any interviews while they were together..
oh and not to mention the full metal jacket intro

botch were good but not the greatest ever.

unbroken are probably my favorite metalic hardcore band.
integrity were always sick to see live in the early 90's
CHOKEHOLD
converge
starkweather
overcast
groundwork
abnegation
dead guy
earth crisis
framework
green rage!
vegan reich (lol)
channel
so many metal hc bands that escape me. (100's)

sadly a lot of the music from that era hasn't held up well over time for me.

Skylar, you ever see that film The Edge of Quarrel? There's a great part in it where this old school dude is hanging with these new hardcore kids and he is talking to them, and they're clearly clueless and he's like 'so what were you into before going edge?' and they respond 'i dunno.... metal?'

It's funny how you talk to kids these days and they don't care about any music prior to 2003.

what band were u in khanate?

but here's the thing I don't understand about that either. I find it strange as an old hardcore dude that they're not interested in bands before 2003.

BUT as a crazy death/thrash metal dude, I don't understand how they can like all these really bad crossover bands.

for the most part, not always, but for the most part, I just think if you wanted to listen to something that's metal, then why not just listen to straight up metal?

why listen to Bleeding Through or some bullshit like that when you could listen to Carcass?

Im almost positive that morser is ex-acme

I think dwid stories just add to the allure of integrity purely on a LOL level. but more over chubby fresh stories, was barrit from cape cod?

as for metal and hardcore.. I like peanut butter and I like chocolate but dont get your pb in my chocolate...most people think Im crazy for this but apparently im not alone..