Will the two of you get your stupid civil discourse out of here and we can all get back to hating each other??

The hate for you never left!

There you go!! Thanks Henry!!

you can never be too nice. seriously.

i was just referring to your compliment.
from my understanding this sculpt wasnt handsculpted
the usual japanese way, so its rather a rejection from craft.

vinylpulse says it was sculpted digital.

i like this collab a lot and dont mind digitally sculpting,
to me it works well with stylized minimal western vinyl period and
i might even be a fan of other figures by scott
- dont know which ones he was involved in exactly
...mc supersize???

when it comes to monsters (organic figures)
i think digitally sculpts look wrong: too perfect, a little static, artificial.
awesome details, but then lost in detail at the same time,
missing charm.
and sure after collecting western vinyl for years,
i learned to appreciate all the handcraft that
goes into japanese vinyl which i dont want to miss.

no offense intended, just some thoughts.

curious is this the first "monster toy" that was sculpted digitally???

Alife, I much more appreciate this type response than your first.

Let me give you my thoughts on all of this.

I'm going to disagree heavily that this is a "reject" to the craft. This figure is indeed digitally sculpted , but not by a faceless robot. Scott put in many hours working on this just like any other sculptor working their craft. It just so happens his medium is digital. Every other process in this toy is identical to the way all other toys are done.

The Ollie figure has a more smoother surface style, and I can tell you from holding the proto that its a close match. I will say yes, digital at this point can't get the super fine details or imperfection charm a human hand can add, but its close.

As for other figures, he made the Mad Battle Man for Sutfin, as well as the Secret Base produced Toy Punk for the Toy Punk guys. And trust me many others are starting to use this sculpting style as well.

I definitely won't ever fully switch over to digital as I love hand sculpting the majority of my own stuff. But I look at this as another tool I can use to build a toy. I'm not going to limit myself to any particular way of getting a toy made because of "traditions". At the end of the day, as long as it hits the mark of what I going for and makes a toy I enjoy I will use everything I can to obtain it.

The heart and soul that goes into everything I make is definitely in this. It was all created by artist who love the art of making toys and just because one aspect happens to be digital it's not lost.

As well I wanted a third party to take mine and Skinners drawings and translate them as close as possible with out the sculptor adding their own style to it. I feel Scott took our concept and stayed true to the illustration. He was a blast to work with and if given the opportunity I will do it again.

Trust me when I say this, I believe many artist who traditionally hand sculpt toys appreciate this method of sculpting. And I also believe going forward you will see more of it. As long as it stays true to the heart of the craft I don't see an issue with it.

Will the surface finish cast or appear matt in vinyl? I'm just curious because I like how glossy most vinyl is...I wonder if the mold could polished or tooled to change that.

A couple years ago I got to play around with a digital sculpting set and enjoyed it. I was more impressed with how the printer worked.

I cant say for sure but I'm thinking that the proto is just matte looking because it's made of the 3D printer plastic.

O definitely glossy for sure. The protos material looks flat but the surface texture is very smooth. As well It boils down to the wax, and during that process it will get even smoother.

It will definitely look and feel like every other JP vinyl toy. It's be done by the same people who do all my other stuff, as well as many of the other makers.

And yes, the rapid proto process is fascinating. Each piece is solid but the are undercuts and cut outs all over. Like for example the chain belt. On the proto you can see behind the chain. It won't be able to finished this way, but to see it is amazing.

Also since the parts are hollow the inside looks like giant snow flakes.

Also if needed be I could just cost it in the same surfacer that I use for all my other toys. That would guarantee it.

I have been thinking of tooling the plastic I can't lie. Just to give it some imperfections that I would like to see. But I'm scared I would fuck it all up haha. Better just leave it and see what I can do when it's wax.

Mongolion called and he said he needs his arm back
Seriously, I have to agree with Fabian. There is something lost when a sculpt is done digitally. Maybe it's too early in its phase of development but I'm not a fan of monsters from a digital sculpt. Scott sculpted my toy which was supposed to be part of the Toy series with Sutfin and Giant which never came out and looking back in retrospect maybe it was a good thing. Nothing against their toys which I love, I just don't think my style suited this type of sculpting. I want to see the hand of the sculptor in a toy. I understand Rich's point that he wanted a direct translation from artist to toy but I've always felt that sculptors always add that variable to an equation that makes everything come together. The Motuko wouldn't be the Motuko if it wasn't for Mirock. The Mongolion wouldn't be the Mongolion if it wasn't for Kosmo Liquid. The Boogie wouldn't be the Boogie if it wasn't for Tossy from Cure. Baby Huey would be Baby Huey if it wasn't for Kazu from Itokin Park and so forth. They would've been direct translations of my drawings which weren't very good.
As far as the toy, I've told Skinner how I felt about it and I don't really think the two heads work well together. Maybe it was the difference in style of the two artists but I almost wish it was either all Rich or all Skinner. Also, seeing the sculpt in person, I noticed that the shoulders that the heads sit on were very flat. Almost like a platform instead of natural shoulders. I would've liked to see the shoulders slightly more rounded. Just some thoughts.

No offense intended Joel but your statement treats Scott Wetterschneider as if he is himself a machine. This toy wouldn't be what is is without Scott Wetterschneider and he was asked to do a direct translation. I am sure that many of the sculptors you mentioned would be capable of limiting what they added to a particular sculpt but Rich wanted this to be a true reflection of his collaborative efforts with Skinner. Scott's skill set made that possible. While he may have used a different set of tools to do so, he still sculpted this. He didn't do a three dimensional scan of something and print it out. While I do see peoples point, I feel it is a bit nit picky. Be honest with yourselves, if Rich had shown a pulled piece of this vinyl and said he sculpted it traditionally would one of you have stood up and said "nope, no way, has to be a digital sculpt"? Regardless of what others think, Rich had Scott do the sculpt for his own reasons and got the results he wanted (to the best of my knowledge). Now if you don't like the shoulders or lack of neck (pretty sure Skull Pirates do not have a sculpted neck) then that is perfectly fine. Personally I think it shows a great deal of humility and respect for Skinner's art (which are not bad drawings) and the project for Rich to remove himself from that step of the process. We all know Rich is fully capable of having done it himself. Just because we all have a fondness for doing things the old fashion way, there is no reason to eschew new technology all together. Anyways, regardless of my take (yes, i know I am an MVH fan) it is nice to see some actual discussion instead of just slights and meaningless cheap shots.

I can understand the desire for a hand sculpted toy, if it's a talented sculptor they can capture an energy just not obtainable any other way. But when I saw this figure in person, I was really impressed with it. To me, maybe this figure doesn't have that hand sculpted energy, but it has something else. It's refined, perfect, meticulous. and it's really just amazing. Not every toy has to be the same or share the same traits, There are plenty of crudely sculpted toys out there, or refined still retaining some crude traits like asymetry or the anatomy is a little off, or rough tooling or whatever. This is a rarity, and Rich, don't even think about sculpting into it I want it because the finish is perfect, and I have plenty of crude toys, I want this.

Really, lately I've been seeing some amazing 3-d sculpted figures, especially in the garage kit world. Things only the elite, best of the best traditional sculptors could do. And it's really got me wondering if it's the future and wanting to put down the clay, and start digitally sculpting. too bad quality printing is so damn expensive. I guess both methods have pros and cons. But you just have to appreciate it for what it is and the tools and technology used.

all as been said ! Rich try something another different and it's just perfect to me, combine with a fair price ! speak about 14" he know the job, nothing to prove, just fun for fans ! many figures grow up at this day every where in the west and here on SB, let creativity fuck the hype, take pleasure, play with your kaijus and having fun.....

I don't care if Rich sculpted this thing with his butt, I just want the damn toy!

13 inches of double headed fury?! Sign me up!

Thats what she said...

Cosmo > computer . . . Hell, Cosmo > anyone . . . ever . . . anyplace!

I'm pretty sure there isn't a soul alive who would disagree with that

And regardless if I agree or disagree I appreciate the conversation this created. It's all valid points on both sides.

At the end of the day it's just a toy, not rocket science. If it looks good to you and is the quality you demand than just enjoy it. Worrying about the details is pointless.

I like a nice juicy steak , but don't need to see the gruesome details, I just want the steak.

I was just kiddin, BUT I do appreciate your caring to clarify.
Ha, I really should remember to use this:

*Anyone who wants to use it, here's the image link : http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu330/cthulhu19887/smileys/sarcasm/th_e037cdbb.gif.

I've always believed "Craft" could be associated with (1) any subject that one's become a practiced master of, OR meant to represent (2) the highest skill set of a subject. Ha, they sound the same (maybe I didn't define them properly), but here, Ex.: (1) I've got a friend who's craft is sandwich making. (2), His talent in sandwich making is a compliment to the craft.

When commenting on Krawluss, although I definitely think the 1st example applies here w' the amazing talents of Rich & Skinner, I was speaking to the 2nd example, and not about the actual sculpting (I haven't seen the piece in full yet to have an opinion on this), but to it's "modern day kaiju" design. And of course everyone likes different things, but I still think there are so many elements to this figure that you'd want in a piece, without seeming forced & unnecessary. In the end, it's still my opinion, but no doubt this work will be successful. I can't imagine what these will look like painted!

And as far as the many different ways we have to create, I agree that digital sculpting is just another tool, although may not be the preference to some. I believe the final product is what's important, not necessarily how it got there, as that's the creator's decision, where the product's left to be enjoyed or hated for what it is by the viewer. Now the quality being compromised by digital printing is definitely a valued argument. I'm wondering if we should really compare hand-sculpting to digital though at all. Perhaps the quality's not compromised, just different, as is the difference between an initial resin sculpt & a polyfoam one. I've seen digital paintings that kick some traditional paintings' asses, both on canvas...

I like pie.

I eat pie.

any questions?

Yes.

Where can I get some damn pie?!

Thanks for the clarification Rich. I forgot to think about any changes that might occur in the wax...As far as my experience in working with metals/casting I should have remembered you need something like wax that will melt out of the mold after it is made Etc.

If the toy is cool, thats it.

y'all talking about this like its some groundbreaking piece of art. its a toy, and its a fun one. sculpting is sculpting, whether you do it digitally or physically, the hours are there, the love is there and the work is obviously there.

Im happy for you, Rich. Im a fan of your toys and this certainly tickles me right.

I noticed the flat shoulders too, and think it looks cool. Someday it might be nice to make a single large head that fits right on that shoulder surface, that could be awesome.

That's totally possible !!!

Great idea

Skinners been crazy busy but saw this thread and asked me to post this ...

"
This toy is exactly the kind of thing that I would have lost my shit over as a kid.. Plain and simple, that is the visceral response that I look for and enjoy when engaged in this scene.. I see a shitload of stuff that I literally have no interest in.. I get more excited over a plastic dinosaur in a grocery store over a lot of vinyl I see.. That being said, this is how a kid gets into shit.. The reaction.. When you see something that rips, I mean fucking really rules.. You know what's up.. It's great.. The thing that I have noticed in toy scenes and in scenes in general, is that we let our psychic and emotional and social static get in the way of just liking something.. Too much this, too much that, not enough of this.. It's cool because it is that people are strongly interested in sharing their opinions.. I also would like to see people more openly just own the fact that they have weird feelings about the way they perceive others achievements..be it emotionally based judgements, ego, or otherwise something about the situation feels challenging and instead of engaging themselves about it and reflecting on what it is for them, they go on the Internet and start outlining what they don't like about it.. I see it in art, toys, music.. Blogs and threads all the time.. It's an interesting occurrence.. I will tell you my feelings on the Krawluss and my artistic process.. Here goes.. I don't ever stop a creative process I am doing to see if it's referencing someone else's art or if someone else has for anything similar and I will tell you why.. Joel and I pull ideas from the same weird fantastic garden of influence.. For me to say that if I did something similar to Joel was ripping him off is secondary to the fact that we both in some way are influenced/ripping off a whole earlier generation of artists.. I been drawing twisty swords since before I knew Joel and if it works for whatever piece I'm doing I will do it again.. I do what is right for me or the piece in the moment.. I will never look around and go," all the good ideas are used up, can't do nothing else" I will just do what I do..this toy was created to do battle with the Ollie and any other character that big.. I looked at ollies spike arm and thought a blade would be good.. It never crossed my mind in anyway that Its too close of a likeness to mongolion.. I just don't constrict myself to anything when I'm in a freedom zone of creating.. To accommodate external influences while creating feels like cutting off my fingers to fit into a nice little glove.. I'm not into it.. I loved the idea of a digital sculpt and I will also tell you why.. It hasn't really been done like this.. Digital sculpting is a tool.. It will be fought at first and picked at and seen as marginal or not as " true" and something is " lost" exactly like they say when something is digitally colored, or when acrylics came out, people who used oils were strongly against it.. Just like photography as an art form was strongly dismissed for years but now look at it, or photoshop.. All these marginalized and dismissed tools now used as extremely appreciated art forms.. Digital sculpting is challenging the comfort levels of people and I rather enjoy that because what is art if it is not challenging.. I see this toy as a great risk on Rich and I's parts.. Too do something new in a scene wrought with traditions and stringency And strong opinions by people who are very invested.. I have no problem standing behind Scott's digital sculpt because everytime I saw a new version of it I had a visceral childlike excitement, I stand behind Rich because he clearly cares about this scene and toys in a very passionate way.. And I stand behind the whole thing because even though it has aspects of it that are annoying to some, seem like a bite to joel( I will bust your ass later), or seem untraditional to others who want to see an actual hand do the sculpt, this toy will blow your fucking mind once you see it and that's all that matters.. This toy fucking rips and it is in my opinion an appreciative nod to others like us who enjoy the weird and exciting vibes of a weird toy. It's priced affordable as fuck, it rips your mind out, and not one aspect of it is insulting or taking advantage of the toy collector at all. This toy is as pure as Jesus's balls my friend so worship it!
Peace out.
Joel, you're dead"