I don't care who collects what frankly, but this place is a message board devoted to Japanese Sofubi- so discussion of western stuff should absolutely be a minimum around here. As far as the whole place being a little more welcoming? Sure it can be harsh, or rather half a dozen assholes around here can be harsh, but the other 100+ are awesome. Hell, I'm about a year into being a regular here and some of the assholes on my ignore list who were once nasty to me have recently been helpful and respectful towards me. Maybe I passed the screening phase, which isn't necessarily a bad thing- sometimes its best to weed out the weak. I'd like to see things grow too, but not with a mindless mentality. I'd be more happy if in a year we saw the hobby grow with 10 new contributing, intelligent members of this "community" over 100 new idiot fans.


phil

I can only speak personally, but I consider any "community" as a sort of bonus to what I do not a privilege(whether it be toys or anything else)..I've met many great people here and probably will in the future as well. Still, I don't agree that we should embrace every person who decides to look here for a second or just bought a Kaiju [expletive deleted]TM. It's not our job to make people think this is something it's not. Most people from the KR boards come (or came) here because they smelled money. I believe that one should show that they are deserving of participating in ANY group before being fully embraced by it.

I had been involved directly in the toy "scene" in NYC for 8 years before I posted here at all. I fully expected shit when I did start posting, got it and still do sometimes. I don't think there should ever be a blanket open door policy to anything (unless it's food, clothing, shelter, medical care, etc.) as one should show they believe this is something meaningfull to them...which I feel it should be on some level to be here.

If someone shows their worth their salt, I think everyone here is more than happy to roll out the red carpet. Also, I think that romanticizing the KR community gives too much credit to a LOT of people just looking to make a quick buck. I've seen the groups of kids chasing the UPS truck down the street at it delivers KR shit to stores, and they ain't yelling about the merits of the toys after they've made their purchase.

I'm not for a border fence either, but to welcome every bumper from kr would be the final coffin nail for this board.

I have no problem if someone collects both Japanese vinyl and KR/Western stuff. BUT they have almost NOTHING in common, so why should there be a bigger place here for that?

What do they have in common, how are they linked, what am I missing?

1- They're made of vinyl (which is questionable about a lot of "Western" stuff)

2- They cost a lot of money.

I think it ends there. Star Wars toy collectors have more in common with this type of stuff than people who collect "Western" toys. So, though I feel there is a place here for some conversations about that stuff, I don't think it should be absorbed so openly into this community since there really isn't a lot in common between the 2, though it might seem like it.

Like "New Wave" and "Punk" or better yet, "Star Wars" and "Star Trek." I don't shun anyone into KR stuff, but it is all far from this stuff and I just don't see the connection or it's place here beyond small conversations.

It'd be like a Death Metal forum going "Hey, maybe we should open up to the Nu-Metal kids a bit more, eh?" Why? It just is NOT the same. We shouldn't kick out anyone into it and outcast them IF they come in with a genuine enthusiasm for these toys, but we should steer them clear of bringing up/posting pics of their other stuff too often as well. It's not the place, nothing personal, no offense to the collector.

Didn't mean to get off topic, it's just I totally disagree with anyone when they bring up this "let's open our selves up more to 'them'" style of thinking when I see not point. We're not making it "us vs. them" it's just more like "this is this, that is that, and let's just leave it there." At least that's how I feel.

I think what I'm trying to say is the product made by Kidrobot and a number of sofubi makers is not as disparate as people are making it out to be. There is already considerable aesthetic cross-pollenation, so we should encourage folks who, say, previously bought a Huck Gee toy to try on a Brian Flynn design.

The tone of threads bashing KR, and posts lambasting collectors "daring" to post pics of, say, their 20" Dunnny customs, is destructive.

I mean, yeah, I can see the intent is to meet the devil at the gates, but all that's doing is locking us in.

Well, there is more similarities than those 2 points, as some artists (mostly american) use both
"platform" to paint on and custumize. We all know it, like it or not.
We don't see that with Star Wars toys - exept Suckadelic, in a way.
I'm not too much into KR, so I don't know if all the kids there do that really for money.
It is fairly commun to see a tread sale here that's gotten a mirror there. . .

Brian last post was on point.
Watch out for Kidpunk 61 with his balls pending next year.

But at the CORE of what they are, there's only the 2 points. Japanese vinyl is not made with the intent for anyone to pick up and paint to show their artistic skills. Western stuff is. (-note- I'm not bashing customs.)



I see your point a little more clearly, but I don't think of it as locking us in. I see it as a sanctuary from anything that is NOT Kaiju/Kaijin/Fight Figure based. If a pic thread has some western stuff, fine, but it better have some Japanese stuff too, otherwise what's the point?

I guess the POV I'm coming from is: Is all, ok 90% of the stuff here is based on, in tribute to or honoring something from our childhood directly. Kaiju films, Bootleg toys, Walder/Henshin figures etc. They're made to say "hey remember? here's my take!" True nerd-dom in a sense. As where "Western" stuff is "Look, I'm into art, I'm an artist let me represent myself!" Which is COOL. But the person/artist is what seems to come before the toy/content. Toys are just another medium to them. As where with these, toys are the ONLY medium at the core.

It's about the toy, not the "art." I never came from the KR world, so I guess I'm a bit lost on it too. Not really trying to argue, just showing the POV of someone who came from somewhere else and doesn't see the connection clearly.

[quote="BloodDrinker6969"]

But at the CORE of what they are, there's only the 2 points. Japanese vinyl is not made with the intent for anyone to pick up and paint to show their artistic skills. Western stuff is. (-note- I'm not bashing customs.)

quote]

What about the RxH Solid line? And what is "Western stuff" (in the context of vinyl toys)anyways? As a toymaker I'm a bit confused now. I surely didn't make my robots with the intent for others to pick up and show thier artistic skills. I also didn't come from the KR boards so where do folks like me fall under?

I'm also a bit confused as to what the lines are...

My collecting tastes fall over many boundries, since I don't give a shit as to what company makes it, who painted it (except Pushead, which I would buy it even if it was a [expletive deleted] ), what the run numbers are or what factory pulled it (Japanese, Chinese, some dude in their basement, etc). If I like the toy, I buy it...if I don't like it, I ignore it. KR hasn't made a toy that I am even remotely interested in, but it is easier to ignore than spew hatred on something.

For example, what is the difference between Bwana's stuff (which seems accepted here unconditionally) and other "Western toys"? What is the concept (and resulting backlash) of a platform toy, when a Japanese kaiju is often one sculpt with many different colorways? And, often used by artists for customs?

That being said, I do understand Brian's views of the "punk" KR toys, as I was slightly offended also, when I saw these things. KR are trying to cash in based on generalizations and stupid stereotypes (safety pins...really?), while playing off the idea that they are somehow honoring it and have roots in it. That is like saying that they love Asian culture, as they make a toy of an Asian person with slanty eyes, buckteeth and a fumanchu mustache, working at a drycleaners.

I also agree that KR stuff may not have a place here, as our kaiju niche and focus is very specific, and they have their own board in which they talk about their stuff...but why insult and drive some members away when they have pics of a western toys mixed in with their Secret Base collection?

Also, don't give S7 any static for making those shirts...that TRON lightcycle shirt freakin' rules

The Solid line, made not just by RxH, seems to me as a more "damn, stop stripping the toys WE painted, here are some blanks" type response. But the sculpts and characters and toys as a whole don't seem to have been created for the purpose of being a platform, though they became a platform anyway. As where most KR stuff IS made to be a platform. RxH figures all have a source base, Mutant is slightly inspired by TMNT, Evil has some Devilman and DBZ representation as where Chaos has some Frankenruge and other influences going on and so forth. They seem to have been created (I might be wrong, I'm not Mori) as an homage to their original inspirations and to show them through the creators eyes. Not to make something cool to paint on (I don't think a lot of customizers do this, but that's a different conversation, don't take offense.)

When I say "Western" it's not an insult either. I guess I mean more "Art Toys" or "Urban Vinyl." Figures made with the intent to platform an artist or their style. Toys made to be a canvas, not to be toys.

Your toys, Robert, don't fit that mold. They're not made to be canvases to show off others art but rather to show off and represent your love for figures/shows/characters you grew up with and to interpret them into toys/3D figures. They're made by the creator FOR the creator and if others get it and like it, great.

Art Toys/Platform toys or what I refer to when I say "Western" are not that. They seem to be made for the public to do what they want to them, which is fine, but I'm just trying to show how, to me, there is a WORLD of difference between the 2 and I don't see many connections at all.

I mean it'd be like me going onto a Alien/Predator board and showing off my Star Wars crap. Sure, there's cross-over fans and similar content, but it's not what that board would be for. If I had some Alien/Predator stuff displayed with other things, however, that'd be ok there (I'd suspect?)

Again, my intent isn't to scorn those who are into the KR type toys, but this isn't the place, no harm no foul, let it go and I appreciate this board for being what it is.

So to get back onto initial response to andy: I don't think we should just open up to KR-Style figures being accepted/discussed openly here. Not out of hate or disrespect, just that they're not part of this board. They're totally something else. Furthermore we shouldn't shun someone if they have some collection pics WITH those toys in it, so long as the focus are the toys we DO discuss here. All just my opinion, though.

OK, I've posted way too much on all this and it's waaayayyyyy off topic, sorry.

I see your distinction now, but I don't think it holds up for all Western toys. Only a percentage are true platforms: Dunnny, Qeee, etc. Quite a lot of others, and some of the best, have colorways which are chosen by the original designer. Travela, Mr. Bunny, Dunces, Helper, Ugly Dolls....There's really some nice stuff out there in the world of "Western" toys.

You know, the funniest thing is a lot of Japanese sofubi makers are totally open minded about different types of toys. (One of them is a massive Trexi fan...) The East/West divide is in fact an artificial construct perpetuated by a very small number of people. That's why I say it's more illusion than substance.

In terms of quality of materials and color application, absolutely I prefer Japanese sofubi sprayed with V-color over rotocast toys made in China with pad printing. Doesn't mean I have to hate on KR to validate my collecting choices.

But, I mean look in a recession teetering on depression, is this really the time to be going out of our way to further some weird Maoist vinyl "class struggle"?

Oh, I'm open minded to other toys, I'll check something out, I just generally don't like it and am honest with myself about it.

I also don't JUST dislike things for who/where/why they're made, don't get that idea about me from what I'm saying. I'm just saying this is one board for one thing, than there's another board for others and so on. I like it that way.

Yeah I'm hearing that. I just think our numbers are shrinking, the thre$hold to new collectors is becoming outrageous, and there's potential for serious jeopardy in the coming year for some of the folks making and selling stuff to our (very tiny) collecting group. That's why I'm bordering on overstating my point about not only welcoming, but encouraging other collectors to come here and enjoy sofubi without worrying about being persecuted for their other interests.

Hey, here's a tidbit to chew on. New sofubi releases are regularly talked about on KR, including Super7 toys. They get a very positive vibe and reception, and folks are really open-minded in exploring new and different types of toys. Maybe the door could do with a bit of swinging both ways?

That's true - but none of it is made by KR. It's a shame that "Western" has come to mean "KR". Some Western stuff can be good, but no KR stuff is ever good. And the more closely linked an artist is to KR, the more they suck (Ledbetter, Huck, Kozik) - the further away from the KR end of the spectrum the better they are (Jarvis, KAWS, Mars-1).

The KR board in inclusive and allows long discussions on Eastern toys not just KR toys.

The hardcore vintage guys must think we all collect Eastern versions of dunnnys.

Punk is over 33 years old.

I'd argue it does swing both ways. There's an "American Idols" forum, and whenever there's something worth posting about (and sometimes even when there's not!) it get's posted. Sometimes the discussion goes on for several pages, sometimes it dies after one post.

we should just shut down this board and go over there

They made a samurai and geisha set...okay so it didn't have buckteeth and wasn't working at a drycleaners (they could also be nurses if not working at the drycleaners). Isn't there also one with a pointed straw hat like the one farmers wear in the rice fields?

I love Western Punk toys.LXMXHXC.

1- That rules.
2- It's not a toy, but still rules.

It is a toy I play with him everyday

By that logic ANYTHING can be a toy

I actually think things have settled down a lot. Part of the skullbrain population has always had kind of a weird obsession with kr, maybe it's the shame of knowing that they used to collect [expletive deleted]. I'm glad that's kind of died down. These days I'm noticing a lot more old school kaiju collectors, or just toy nerds in general who have never been to kr.

Also this is pretty funny to read, gives some good perspective: http://forums.kidrobot.com/viewtopic.php?t=17138

someone took a hit

I've not been here long myself and have been on the KR and the old Ning boards since...err...04? God Anyhow....i've become increasingly disenchanted with the KR boards for a number of reasons and the place is an unruly mess full of kids and hypebeasts more interested in how 'edgy' collecting these kitch lil items makes them. Standing in line to buy toys and then suddenly needing to sell something because they have no money...for a profit natch!

I'm not into a board vs board debate but I do think many people recognised that the KR boards have gone from being brilliant, to average, to downright crap in the space of about 2 years. Loads of old collectors seemed to have disappeared...dunno if they're here or not....and any "community" that existed has long since disappeared.

I'd say SB however has mch more of that old feel of the Ning boards where it was a bunch of people hanging out discussing new releases etc. in a considered manner.