Yeah it's sad but I've seen it happen in too many places. It's so easy to fool the voting public, I sometimes wonder whether full democracy is in everyone's best interests.

I think we can all agree to disagree
I found the post interesting..
Alot of people post things that are far left (on the boards in general)
I don't agree with them, but I don't flame them.
And knewnan.. i thought your post at KR was great..
Did you catch the south park?

creaturion, you conveniently ignored one topic...national security/terrorism. The only illegal immigrants that truly worry me are the ones who want to blow shit up. The fact of the matter is that terrorists can easily gain entry into the U.S. due to weak security along the borders. The borders (both Mexican and Canadian) are a liability.

You see that argument was used here when the train lines were bombed in London. Was even used as a reason to have ID cards. But they forgot the fact that all 4 of them involved were born in Britain

I'm not even gonna go into the whole immigrant issue. I know that people have their opinions on this and no forum thread will change their mind.

I will talk about the crappy reporting by CNN though. Through the brilliant use of wordplay, cnn has created the implication that mexico would sue because of senseless deaths. If you read the article, there's two issues discussed. First, lawsuits against the US for mistreatment of 'aliens' by the national guard and second, aliens being forced into tougher spots to attempt to cross into the states. There is nothing but the careful juxtaposition of the two issues in print that connects the two. CNN does this to incite and inflame readers like you, ghostbuster.

Come on, do you think that the mexican government is stupid? Do you think that they would actually try and sue if someone dies on a barbwire fence? Mexico has intelligent and educated people that aren't gonna litigate for stupid reasons. CNN has just put two issues close together and let you connect them to get you upset. It's the same way that iraq and terrorism were always mentioned closely in politicians speeches to help bolster the invasion of iraq and connect it to the war on terror.

This shit just serves to polarize people and get them upset and disagree with other people. The american political system is trying so hard to polarize the nation and the media plays into their agenda. By making things black and white, and making people pick a side, then no real progress can be made in the political process. You pick a side, being prodded by these 'hot button' issues and either your side wins or loses. In a few years, the other side will either get a bit more people on their side and the balance will change but the same fractured and damaged system will be in place, and politicians will continue in their comfortable seats of power.

These hot button issues are always an arms-length issue. How many immigrants directly have affected your life? How many gays have? The issues that involve personal rights are the type of issue that the government wants to avoid because it might get people upset enough to want to change the way the system works.

So to sum up, media manipulates people no matter what your political leaning. They incite misguided debate and only serve to keep people apart.

bravo

the thing is cnn has lost so much of its viewer base they don't know what to do to get it back

Hey Bryan, your pretty smart.....for a Canadian! Just kidding! Very well said! I just hope all these immigrants don't ruin the sanctity of my marriage!

Indeed bryanarchy. I was just musing that the media is at fault, not for its leftist or rightist leanings, but for being fed these hot-button topics one after another by the politicians and then giving them top spot attention.

This is of course worse during election years. Polticians are mostly very intelligent people. They know that the hot button topics have little to do with running a country, and yet they serve quite nicely in fooling the public into believing that its part of the process. Sitting in on a session of Congress or the House of Parliament (or watching them on TV) reveals very quickly that the ins and outs of running a government are far removed from hot button shenanigans.

But the nuts and bolts aren't "exciting" and politicians don't look "heroic" talking about tort reform, now do they?

Another thought that crossed my mind. Sometimes politicians go to war to avoid domestic concerns. This time the reverse seems to be happening.

word up bryanarchy....dropping smart bombs on all the suckas..

all this and toys too..now thats gangsta..

How many of you live next to the Mexican border or have ever spent time in Mexico?

All my family is from Tijuana.....right next to the border and San Ysidro....

spent most my summers growing up in Mexico.....still do..

In fact, I am gonna go visit my fam when I go down to SDCC...you know it..

I visited Tijuana many many moons ago.

very good points, exactly my thoughts!!!
its always terrible to read stuff like in this topic. all this american-redneck attitude and conservative bullshit with empty and arrogant arguments. Im realy happy to live in germany if I read stuff like this. "terrorist target". give me a break, its a phrase. the USA goverment is killing people EVERY DAY! yes, there are terrorists out there. but its no wonder, that there are people who hate the US.
sadly, my english is too bad to write more.

You are correct. I should have read more carefully. I stick by what I said about this (border patrol) being a national security issue though.

SCUMHEAD, the U.S. is a terrorist target. That is a factual statement. High-profile terrorists have stated very clearly that the U.S. is a major target.

I think the US should be far more concerned with the millions of Americans without health insurance. That's a far greater tragedy. CEO's get fired and walk away with $10 million pay offs, while hard working single mothers can't buy medicine for their kids. In the meantime the government is doing nothing, and the insurance lobby wants you to believe that a national healthcare system will be the end of all things.

Focus attention where it should be, not on distractions.

Why not pay attention to both?

I just checked with Lou Dobbs, he said that's not possible.

This is a weak argument because you won't be able to come up with a history of terrorist acts that occurred because of bad border security. All 19 of the 9/11 hijackers entered this country through legal means, and if I'm not mistaken the ones that bombed the WTC before that did, too.

Border security and immigration law enforcement are both things we should strive for, but there's no point in citing terrorism as a reason to do it.

Didn't you get the memo?

Invade Iraq = Terrorist threat
Seal off Mexico (but not Canada) = Terrorist threat
Switch to Jiffy = Terrorist threat

Again, why not focus attention on all of our problems? You seem to think that this one item (immigration) shouldn't be addressed. Why?

National heath care is a duty of all civilized countries.

As to immigration issues, sure they should be addressed, but tackling that issue isn't a panacea, and illegal immigrants aren't the leeches they're made out to be.

Well. I'm going to sleep. I'll let you guys thrash this out.

Good night.

how about we let all those in the US who are always bitching about how terrible, warlike, and aweful America is move down to Mexico... then there would be plenty of room and jobs for those good folks who want to come north for a better life. Since all us ugly Americans are so terrible, it amazes me so many people want to come here.

There was a time in the US when conservatives and liberals could talk sensibly to each other and even work together to strive for a common good. Partisan posturing is the lamest garbage ever.

Anyone who says that the US isn't under some terrorist threat is living in a hole. I agree that you guys should make intelligent steps to prevent it, but really need to start asking questions about why the US is a target and how to change this.

Just draw a line. Stop debating opinions on here and in real life. Think about ways people of whatever political leanings can do to improve life for everyone. Lacking healthcare affects both right and left. Being poor or jobless affects right or left.