Oh no!..Bro disses your brand and spells MAWANKA wrong. Grow the fuck up Greg.

I cannot believe I am on this side of the argument, but what I always thought was unfair was the lack of access to these toys, unless, of course you live in NY or Tokyo. That and the unrelenting hyping of these toys. Now, given that the price is high, the same clique that dominated collecting these is likely broken, outside those that get theirs as "gifts". I have only succeeded in all these years in getting one Nag at "retail", and that was from the most recent release in SF where 4 people arrived for 4 toys.

Any artist/company is allowed to set their own price. If Shig just threw these all on YJA or Ebay himself, he would undoubtedly get more money. A higher price, too, as many have noted, discourages flipping. I am glad that Shig is profiting now more, and taking the money rather than the flippers, and appreciate that he could probably get even more if he were greedy.

Of course, I support an inexpensive unpainted unlimited run, or several. But, if Shig did that, how long would it be until these toys plummeted in price, once an unpainted one is on every shelf? These are not the collectors' decision: they are Shig's alone. We can only choose to buy or not, provided access is present.

Thoughts?

I think you have too much money and a bipolar personality!

scary andy has too many fight figures

This thread is embarrassing. Just reading thru the comments and watching adult men gripe and cry over this "toy/art/art-toy" is just ridiculous. Some of you guys are just going in circles and coming off like total pussies.

I think this is an intersting argument but where I disagree is that almost out of the gate and for whatever reason, Mishka became the marketing, sales rep, distributor of Shigeru's creation and essentially imo, took over it's identity. So who's "the artist" here? What initially looked to be an interesting vinyl creation became...well it became the hyped, dressed up dollie that it became. Was this really a collab with Shigeru, with two artists? It seems awful difficult to separate all the hype and nonsense and call it art at this point.

Never heard of performance art? Our little Boryoku Genjin just keeps transcending.

Kidding aside, my feelings regarding NagNagNag, sales methods, pricing and availability have always been bipolar to say the least. What is fair, what isn't? What's right, what's wrong? Who's right, who's wrong? The answer has become so blurred since the beginning of all this, it's hard for me to say. I haven't been here since the beginning, and I can't say I really know what the hell I'm talking about, 'cause I really don't most of the time, but here's how I see it... I've been here long enough to know that this community was built upon by collectors who collect for the sake of collecting. Unlike that practiced elsewhere, it wasn't about lining up for the latest blind box series at your local distributor only to express your bragging rights after obtaining a rare commodity, only to throw it up for sale at an extreme markup, and to top it off, be praised for it. Such practices were frowned upon here. The community was here to appreciate toys, share a common interest, help each other to obtain desired articles through fair trade and sales. No gimmicks. These were toys, not works of "art," no need to pay high prices for something vinyl or plastic, "it's just a toy." People trying to manipulate the market in such a way were profiteering off the honest work of toy makers who were in it for the love of the hobby, not the money. This has been the basis for the ethics practiced and promoted throughout the community. I think we should continue to practice and promote these principles, however, as a community, we have to come to accept a harsh reality.

These toys are not necessities. There is no amendment granting us "the right to affordable Nags at retail," or any other toy for that matter. It is the right of the producer, or the "artist," to determine a price point they consider to be fair based on just that, current demand, or trends within the market. A poor decision could lead to failure, loss of profit, or a disgruntled community, but it does not leave people dying in the streets due to insufficient funds for obtaining some life sustaining miracle doll we all secretly need to survive. There's a lot worse going on in the world than a few people trying to make profit off toys that would be considered, by most people, "fucking expensive" to begin with. These guys aren't manipulating gas prices, they're fucking toys, "art," "collectibles," whatever you want to call them. We don't need them, we want them. That comes with a price unfortunately, as does everything else people might want, be it fancy cars or clothing, but don't absolutely need. No, most people I know wouldn't pay $850.00 for a NagNagNag doll, but they probably wouldn't cough up $50.00 either, what does that say about us all? We're willing to spend thousands of dollars on crap we don't need, but once the crap we don't need gets too expensive, we cry bloody murder. It's quite pathetic when you think about it. I'm sad admit that I myself have done such whining, on various occasions, but for the most part, I try to whine in the privacy of my own home, because it's a first world problem people. There's enough whining on the internet as it is. This community should strive for more with the way we hold ourselves so highly over others.

As DYBBUKIM stated, it is favorable for the profit to end up in the hands of the producer/artist, and we can only hope this will discourage resellers. I do believe this community, should, as it always has, attempt to discourage (immediate/strictly intentional) reselling. It is a dishonest practice and should be frowned upon as it does nothing for this hobby but make it less enjoyable for everyone, but when a producer/artist tries to get the money he/she deserves, it should not be seen as a crime or lack of morals, regardless of what 3rd party is involved. Accessibility has been my primary gripe with these toys as well, it is the primary variable when the aftermarket price is determined, but I have come to accept that it is not something that can always be influenced by the community. Some toy makers will here our cries and change their business plan accordingly, which is very respectable and appreciated, but it doesn't make people like Shigeru any less respectable if he so chooses not to.

Can't...read....walls...of text.

I don't really have a super-passionate argument here, and I sincerely appreciate your response, Onibaba5, but I'm going to play Devil's Advocate for just a sec.

The whole history of art is connected to patronage and representation. Without the Vatican, we might not remember Caravaggio. Without Leo Castelli's advocacy, Andy Warhol might not have made his mark. Without people willing to act as intermediary dealers for Nags and willing to pay the high prices for them, Shig might have shrugged the project off by now. Ultimately I think all this stuff is separate from whether or not Nags are "art." I should probably just shut up since I don't really have a dog in this game. Stepping back to the sidelines, now...

"Everything is worth what the purchaser will pay for it." - Publilius Syrus

I hate to break it to you, but on most occasions, art only becomes appreciated as such with the fuel we call hype. I'm not saying Greg made Shigeru, by no means. I think Shigeru's creation was destined for popularity amongst the community from the get go. However, art has always been adopted as such by people with loud mouths and deep pockets, no matter how far back you go.



Sorry Blood.

I'd express myself otherwise, but I think this forum has enough memes and one liners.

That's kind of condescending.

@ Dean;
I'd be kidding myself if I didn't believe "patrons" didn't have some sort influence on the work of artists they supported and represented. I'm sure the Medicis made Michelangelo change a few hairdos. ; ) However, Warhol became Warhol without anyone in the general public knowing who Leo Castelli was.

@ HBCoffin
I'm not arguing how successfully it was hyped, that's pretty evident. My point is that in this case the "patron" and his baggage, overshadowed the artist/creation.

MISHKA is making baggage now? Cool!

this thread is a train wreck of non sense.

They have for awhile now. Here's a write-up on hype...beast from 2007.

http://m.hypebeast.com/2007/8/mishka-fall-2007-accessories?_locale=en

Fact!



Fact!

But now you're both banned

Well played.

On a completely unrelated note, today I saw someone decked out in Mishka apparel at work. Was kinda surprised as I don't live in Cali or NY, and it wasnt at a convention.
Carry on

That's because no self-respecting resident of either city would ever be caught dead (or alive) wearing any of that garb, that may explain why.

Carry on

Banned!

Amazing!

The'll have to pull MAWANKA out of my cold dead hands!