About IG today...

Discussion in 'Whatever' started by eckotyper, May 21, 2017.

  1. eckotyper

    eckotyper Post Pimp

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    About IG today...
    Well from a few friends mouths it seemed like FPF was a pretty good show for the inaugural year. I know I'll try and make it out next year, seems like it has the momentum to grow as big as dcon... those who have been for years and years know this didn't happen over night, but it seems like a great idea. Can potentially cancel for many of us from SDCC and NYCC as we are being pushed out anyways... congrats to all the artists in attendance it looked like great fun. Now with that said let's address what wound up being the elephants in the room. Flipping. This was next level. A entire group which was estimated at 20 being straight vultures at every booth.
    While some will argue it's inevitable. I feel we as a community need to take measures to help stop this train. Let these people know they are not welcome. I am sure I even know a few guys that will straight punk a flipper out of line. Not saying we have to get this far as at the end of the day a toy is just a toy. What irks me about the flip is the collector is the first person who is hurt off of this. A person copping only for profit takes the chance from a person who is actually looking to admire and cherish that product. The artist is also hurt. Sure they did get the original retail value they put on their item, but if someone is making $2-1500 profit on top of what they paid for the item that was $180 to begin with its shitty as fuck. Many in our community are indie artists. Self funding their wax, mold, pulls, paint, etc... it's just a shitty fucking feeling. And I'm on the outside looking in. I can only imagine what actual artists think. Some will say hey they made it because of this, which while it's true. Doesn't mean it's right.
    I was talking to Mikee, and I brought up a pretty good topic and I feel it's relevant to share. I Feels IG has been one major influence to bring these flippers in our scene. We have been showing off our collections here for years and years. We know when we wanted to share we usually had to snap some shots in our camera, pop that's sD card in our computer, upload before grabbing that image code... I know I used to do this. IG has made us sharing our passion less time consuming. Hashtags have allowed us to share our images with other fans who search for what they are interested in looking at. Problem is you have the vultures with that much access as well. If they get a whiff... they are now blending in the shadows to make a dollar.

    IG has its good too, I've been doing this for just about 12 years. I had met some amazing people over the years. Mostly west coasters and the few out of towners that would make the trek to some shows. Over the last few years that core of literally great individuals has spread at least for me. I know guys now throughout the US. Michigan,CA, NY, NJ, FL, AZ, NM, NV, CT, hell Europe. The list can go on. I kind of do give some thanks to IG for this. It made us being able to share our world with other like minders as easy as click and shoot. We could instantly be plugged into our friend base within seconds versus our old method.

    I think we all need to make that effort to speak to one another. Create bonds, and help others. Not for a "mule fee". Just as a great gesture in hopes that they can in return do it for you down the line. That's how we used to do this. Over the years I know I had stopped it a lot because the randoms I would help would either be ghost when I needed something, or try and charge me when i needed the help back. It had left a bad taste in my mouth. Yet like I said these last few years friendships have grown thanks to IG, and I've been tying to help when I can, no charge. Just a friend helping a friend.

    At the end of the day this is our scene, we can come together and mold it how we see fit.
    I'll tweak a Kanye line for this.

    I miss the old SB.

    And I say that because... SB used to take no shit like this. Flippers were reprimanded and hounded and dealt with. I feel we have lost our edge, we are all probably busier as we are growing older. But we have lost a little of what made us, us.

    Build friendships, help friends. Call out flippers, let's do what we can to continue to not only support our artists. But to support each other.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2017
  2. badteethcomics

    badteethcomics Post Pimp

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    About IG today...
    Forget about WW3, The Last Jedi, or even next Christmas... The "Staple Dunk SB" era is coming to this scene and unfortunately there's not much we can do about it. The next step is waiting for someone to fill a DX with plaster, make a mold out of the reinforced vinyl original and start pumping out vinyl bootlegs.. surprised it hasn't happened already. Once it does be prepared for a flood of annoying as fuck "legit check" posts here and on instagram... or is this being too pessimistic?
     
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  3. eckotyper

    eckotyper Post Pimp

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    About IG today...
    I've been saying this for some time god forbid sneakerheads who don't collect actually get a whif, because we are all doomed if so. But there is stuff we can do, to stand around and don nothing is worse than trying to fight for the community you are a part of.
     
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  4. drybones69

    drybones69 Toy Prince

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    About IG today...
    Although i have not reached out and made as many friends/connections that you have Michael, i know that i am super grateful and psyched on the people that i have been able to meet through this community. I've met great people who time after time have reached out to help me whenever they can, and damn if that doesn't make you feel great, i don't think anything else will. Reaching out to people, getting to know others and building a stronger community can and will help defeat current and future flippers from messing with the scene. Its really easy to reach out and get to know if someone truly appreciates the craft or is just here to find the next hyped up toy that they'll be able to flip the next day. Vibe those people out and warn your friends and the artists, thats really all we can do as collectors, but i think that can go a long way. Such a disappointment to see such great pieces by such great people getting flipped right after this event. Obviously this problem will never come to an end, but maybe we can all help narrow it down so it becomes a harder thing to get away with.
     
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  5. Anti Social Andy

    Anti Social Andy Die-Cast

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    About IG today...
    Nostalgia ain't what it used to be and you're deluded to think that flippers really give a crap about 'denying the opportunity to buy' or the artists investment.

    Posting toy pics on a public instaspam account is on par with blogging/posting/highlighting live auctions . . . yer just shooting yourself in the foot!

    Participating in the IG pissing contest just highlights what's popular to clueless fucks and some of those clueless fucks also happen to 'collect' (mass acquisition) and have REAL deep pockets.

    It's an age-old argument but flippers are just a result of asshats overpaying for intentionally limited product (and there's a lot of new money interest these days). If Joeschmoe sees a way of making an easy $1k+ from a $200 outlay he'd be kind of a dumbass NOT to, and OCD toy pics and needy 'WANT' comments on IG make it easy to see what's currently hawt!

    You cannot 'reprimand' or 'teach' guys with too much money about overpaying or guys desperate to show off the 'latest and greatest' (until the next 'latest and greatest' comes along) . . . internet kudos is king!
     
  6. bunnyboy

    bunnyboy Side Dealer

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    About IG today...
    I'd just like to point out that $180 already is a pretty steep sum considering that retail for a Japanese indie toy used to be 4000-8000 Yen. When you paid $120 for it, someone was already taking advantage of you WANTING!!!1! that elusive, Japanese thingy. Makers have been pushing/"adjusting" their prices exponentially over the last few years, because they could once people started shelling out upwards of 1k for a fucking vinyl toy.

    'Member how everyone was bugged about the arbitrary appropriation of the terms "kaiju" and later "sofubi"? Observe how that trend has petered out due to Chinese makers finding out that they can sell their crappy toys for Japanese prices once toys became a "luxury item". Ask yourself if you would pay $40 bucks for a t-shirt made in China. The solution to all this: DON'T BE A GREEDY ASSHOLE. But yeah, people, so... I'll say it again, there's plenty of great toys out there at very affordable prices, directly from their makers. Heed the gospel of Andy: Don't believe the hype, don't support the hype.

    Oh, and here's a screenshot I took for the lulz almost two years ago:

    [​IMG]

    And here's another one from a Squidbillies episode:


    .
    I've been bitter about toys myself, as is well documented here, but turns out they're just ugly dolls with animal parts after all. Move on & try actually enjoying them.


    If you take the time to look at a shitty toy on IG and the inevitable, needy sycophants' profiles, you'll realize this is already happening...
     
  7. EastEndFrontier

    EastEndFrontier Toy Prince

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    About IG today...
    lt's pretty ironic to see sharks flipping sharks on Ebay :?
     
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  8. ultrakaiju

    ultrakaiju Die-Cast Staff Member

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    About IG today...
    You've raised some good points Mike, but I don't think you can lay this all at the feet of a simple app. Flipping has always been around, including in this hobby. You only need to head on over to the FAQs (not that anyone here would think of doing that) to see that Brian covered the situation back in June 2007. I agree that it is especially sort of a PO to the artist - as much as the fan - to see something they worked so hard to produce and sold for what they deemed a fair price, "lose out" on possible hundreds to thousands of dollars, but the key thing is that honest/loyal to the community makers will continue to price their toys at a fair range, and NOT up their prices to chase that upper limit they see as a response to the aftermarket pricing. As has been said, this whole hobby is gaining more attention, but this whole artificial inflation on toys is pretty ridiculous now, and has become the beast eating itself; you really have to step back and do some self-evaluation to consider pricing and what you are paying for (and, *most importantly*, why). I'm not on IG or social media or whatever, so I don't see this whole game of likes, hype-chasing, and what-have-you. And that's just fine with me. Sure, maybe I am missing out on some toys, but there is a heck of a lot of aspects to that whole side of thing I frankly just don't care to be a part of, and so I am making a choice not to. Andy rightfully pointed out that the flipping is only taking place because people are willing to pay those prices, and have the ability to do so. That is the power of the American dream free market and you will never stop it. I don't care for flippers taking advantage and making $$$ off these plastic dollies, but I don't realistically hate on them any more than any capitalistic, profit-driven business, which is what it is for them, and opportunistic pricks that they might be, they'd all be stuck with a heck of a lot of useless plastic if people stopped valuing and paying for them as art. As for 'brain nostalgia, I get what you are saying, and certainly there has been a fairly significant shift in the board focus and discussions through the years, but the hobby itself is going through a lot of changes. We can be angry and shake our fists at the youth, or just work that much more to keep this place how we like it by actively talking about this things that we like. Anybody* that just takes a backseat on the board, and only comes out to moan and complain doesn't really count for much if they aren't contributing to make this better. That is just being butt-hurt about not getting what you want while not making any effort yourself whatsoever, like moaning about your elected representative if you don't vote.
    * this is not in any way directed at you

    I am not saying that there is no point at all discussing it here; like you said, building a community of like-minded, open, and friendly people is probably one of the best parts of this hobby, and why so many of us have stuck with it through the years, in spite of all the shit-talking and negativity (and even beyond the nostalgia). So yes, it is important to be open and confront this when it happens as much as possible, but I am just not sure there is all that much more to say on the topic. Someone always gets fed up with flipping/lotteries/whatever at some point, and every few months or so will start a thread like this one to vent it out or try and come up with a solution. But it never happens. Because it can't. Sorry, I am not trying to be a negative Nancy here, it's just simple economics. You don't have to look to far to even find businesses set up with using this system as their model. And in a few months there will be another one [of these threads] pop up, I am fairly confident. It is just a regular cyclic occurrence we see on SB, for better or worse. Flipping should be acknowledged when it happens, and definitely - on a personal level - I would actively discourage pursuing dealings with anyone who supports it, but I wouldn't expect it to go away or change anytime soon, at least until this hobby implodes upon itself and all its troll/skull/disgusting/hominid/scarred/double-headed wonder.

    TL;DR - flipping is here to stay, unfortunately. It's not new to any collectable hobby, including this one.
    ______- this board is what you make it, and only by being active and encouraging positive change, will you be happy with the results
    ______- buy what you like and make you happy, for prices you think are reasonable and can afford, and f*$!k everyone else's opinion
    ______ - this hobby can always be relied upon for some good lulz :)
     
  9. AgentRavage

    AgentRavage Addicted

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    About IG today...
    My one and only goal is to cripple that flipper ring from Thailand. They took advantage of the collectors and the vendors. Poor Mr Sunguts wad trying to be so polite as they cleaned out his booth. The lady in front of me bought 4 of each sculpt. I have their photos and an actual Thai collector who flew in shared with me pics I didn't get. He is ashamed that his people make thus hobby like this. He is afraid to be grouped with them. This won't happen at Dcon, I'll make giant wanted posters if I have to, and I'll distribute them to every booth.
     
  10. TattooDougHardy

    TattooDougHardy Comment King

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    About IG today...
    Yeah the Sunguts booth at SuFes last month was also swamped with flippers. Hell, this morning I noticed that an Elegab Disk Kappa had shown up for sale on Mandarake (sold out) even.
     
  11. stonecutterjeff

    stonecutterjeff Fresh Meat

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    About IG today...
    As the scene grows, it will only get worse. Five points did have it downside. I feel bad for everybody but the flippers. I just hope we can create a good balance of making sure the flippers don't get the toy but still allowing the community grow.
     
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  12. foto junkaay

    foto junkaay Addicted

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    About IG today...
    I think we forget that part of the problem isn't just people who are on the outside, but also people from within. There are plenty of people that collect and flip to collect, so where do we draw the line?
     
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  13. Anti Social Andy

    Anti Social Andy Die-Cast

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    About IG today...
    Was that the clusterfuck in the corner right before doors opening?
    A nice sentiment but I fear that the flipper community may already be way bigger than Skullbrain.

    It may be possible to slow them down domestically, but on an international level most of the organised 'crews' don't speak English and have no interest in being involved with western toy forums . . . s'all about the $$$!
     
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  14. boon velvet

    boon velvet Post Pimp

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    About IG today...
    Ha, I saw those pics you took of some of them :thumbsup:. Putting those pics in the hands of some of those vendors would at least help. The vultures must have been pretty bad; I heard they were buying up everybody, and I don't recall seeing as many makers as a whole pissed off about it before. As an example to the amount being flipped - Joe said via IG that close to half of the Masterworks Cadaver Kids sold at 5Pts are now on eBay. Hopefully that's the extent of it and none will show up in similar places. Hope so anyway.
     
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  15. TattooDougHardy

    TattooDougHardy Comment King

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    About IG today...
    Yep. It was incredible. The line on the left is for Sunguts, and it went out to the next room quite a bit
    [​IMG]SuFes Sunguts Line by Doug Hardy, on Flickr
     
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  16. eckotyper

    eckotyper Post Pimp

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    About IG today...
    Well ya very clear we can't do anything about the here and there flipper as they can probably cover their tracks quite well... it probably is easier to stop crews of it. Like I said this wasn't really posted maliciously or even in a pissed off mood. If anything I was rather sad for the artists more than anything. Most spend a lot of time and effort to produce for their fans. I know the majority of us have some moral fiber when it comes to the topic. I suppose it's good at least the flippers are outside the realm and do what they do, as opposed to someone in the scene.
     
  17. Paulkaiju

    Paulkaiju Mini Boss

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    About IG today...
    Or "Mule use for trade banking" for "Karma gifting"?
    I guess it depends on the level of "Bias".
     
  18. foto junkaay

    foto junkaay Addicted

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    About IG today...
    I guess people will step on boundaries that no one else can see.
     
  19. blingaling

    blingaling Fresh Meat

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    About IG today...
    I have always wondered who the heck spends so much buying these flips? Foreign princes?
    Is there anything we as a community can do other than not rage buying on ebay?
     
  20. Waterbear

    Waterbear Comment King

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    About IG today...
    People have tried for years and years to slow down the pro flippers so I'm not going to bother with suggestions or the logistics of why it does and doesn't work. Your post did give me an idea about dealing with the utterly uninformed fans who might have enough "moral fiber" to be helped. This hobby is such a pigeonholed thing but those of us who have been around for years tend to forget that there is such a steep learning curve and no one starts out knowing the things we spent years figuring out.

    Someone who sees amazing pictures of great toys on IG and decides to try to jump in and start collecting probably has no idea about all the time and effort it takes. Sculpting and making molds and getting production going then getting toys in hand to paint and creating packaging and advertising is incredibly time consuming and expensive. Getting the end product into the hands of people who were there every step of the way encouraging the artist and waiting right along with them can be incredibly satisfying. Seeing those loyal fans miss out so someone can e-bay the toys can be pretty upsetting. The thing is most new collectors/buyers/sellers/traders/flippers probably don't know this stuff. They could easily see it exactly as any other product that might be fun to own and resell. What is the difference between soft vinyl and beanie babies and funko pops and yeezys and bags of doritos that play mp3s? Absolutely nothing if you don't know any better.

    If someone or a few someones teamed up to write a nicely worded simple explanation that encompassed both the process and how artists and fans feel about these "toys" and "flipping" then we do a mass share on social media it could help. Then if you let any artist that was interested print it out and include it with any vinyl toys that might make a difference too. At the very least with the people who are simply uninformed. Of course it won't stop pro flippers or people just after easy cash but for cool people new to the whole hobby it would be a nice way to give them the crash course they might need. Whether they choose to respect the message or not is up to them of course but at least they would know what they were doing at that point.
     
  21. Brooklyn_Vinyl

    Brooklyn_Vinyl Comment King

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    About IG today...
    I think there are ways (short of violence) to make these people feel extremely uncomfortable and made aware that they are not at all welcome in the toy collecting community. In the event that a known flipper is identified at a show I think we should have tactics in place to publicly shame and harass these individuals. I strongly believe that there are more of us then there are of them. Too guerrilla? Maybe. Tangible suggestions? Not at the moment. Asking questions and answering them myself? Absolutely. Just an idea.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2017
  22. EastEndFrontier

    EastEndFrontier Toy Prince

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    About IG today...
    Nice idea, but very unrealistic. Do you really think these people (who're reselling these toys for sometimes 10x the original price) are bothered about how much work goes into making them? These people don't have any respect, not for the artist, not for the true collectors, not for anybody...

    I think this is the only tactic that can have an effect in driving the flippers away. You have to bully them and make clear they're not welcome.
     
  23. TattooDougHardy

    TattooDougHardy Comment King

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    About IG today...
    Dutchmen swimming in profits from their tulip sales.
     
  24. Headhunter

    Headhunter Line of Credit

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    About IG today...
    Don't forget Pogs and Spinners damnit!
     
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  25. Headhunter

    Headhunter Line of Credit

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    About IG today...
    That depends on how far you do take the bullying. You can still go to jail for it even if there was no physical contact with the individuals. So tread lightly on that subject at best.
     

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