It seems like over the past few weeks whenever a toy gets mentioned on this board they start selling for crazy prices on YJA a few days later. I assume that means people are reading this board and buying what we tell them is cool. I don't know if they are going to sell it back to us on eBay or if they are just following the leader. What I do know is prices are rising fast and so are the number of people looking for figures. Since most of the figures are such limited runs how do you think this will play itself out? I have been told that for a long time Kaiju collectors did not share information so they could get the figures they wanted and so prices would not skyrocket. Are we headed back to that type of community? This would be ironic since S7 magazine did a lot to help demystify these toys but in the process they created so many new fans (myself included) it might be inevitable that people stop sharing information. I don’t want this to be a pro vs. con of flipping conversation because who really cares (I don’t). I would like to talk about how this will affect the long time collectors around here who share information. I would also be interested in your thought on how the lack of run size information effects the inflated pricing (again, not interested in the “to publish run number or not discussion).
I think part of the problem is that theres a new group of our buds that we are helping out w/info where we all had to basically find it ourselves so its making these figs more available to everyone..Wayy too many"what is this" or Help Me" posts but how do you not help peeps that you consider a friend/acquaintance--A double edged sword of sorts..
Fantastic topic. The biggest thing that will make not talking about toys impossible is the Internet. News travels faster than ever and access to information has skyrocketed over the past decade. If people aren't talking about it here, they'll find someplace else to. I'm sure in the old days you could stick to yourself to try and ensure you get the pieces you want at the prices you want. Today, pictures, descriptions, pricing and expected demand are all being bandied often as fast as they are announced. Something goes up on Vinylpulse and people are talking about it over at KR boards within minutes. And sites like Vinylpulse are expanding outside of just covering western vinyl into the kaiju and other eastern toys. I think as collectors, we're faced with living in an age where everyone is on an equal playing field and it truly is first come, first served. Someone in New Jersey has just as much of a chance to get something as someone in Tokyo because of YJA, ebay and more. In terms of long-term collectors, I think people will probably hold their cards a little closer. I also think in terms of size runs, if the demand is that much higher, the producers might start making more. I know part of the appeal is their limited nature, but without knowing a true run size, what difference does it make really if there are 100 or 300 of something. Just my 2 cents turning into 4.
I think it's just supply and demand, tons of new collectors all diving in balls first, partly because of the hype on KR, and it's finally driving up prices in a big way. And now unfortunately there's some people who are hurting it even worse because they are buying shit just to resell it for a profit.
One thing i dont get is YJA-I have gotten 90% of my really hard to find SB stuff right here(meaning in the US not all on skullbrain) or on the bay..YJA was never that great for me or i just missed out on the auctions..Not saying it sucks but that its hasnt been that helpful to me personally..
keiboba, I agree with what you said. However, in the recent past when looking for/at toys on YJA I was able to come to this board and ask about a figure and then decide to bid once I had some information. This board acted like a very useful YJA Kaiju filter. At this point I am nervous about bringing up anything I have my eye on or even anything new for fear that I will let the cat out of the bag and run up prices or just not be able to get stuff at all.
you're referring to "blowing up auctions" which is exactly why other forums do not allow auction links whether or not it is yours. I'm surprised to see links here and I would be superpissed if someone posted one i was watching. that being said. from a Fresh Meat standpoint I rather like it because I see some interesting shit and stuff I never knew what the hell they were called. might be to your advantage if you post after you win or lose.
Maybe there could be private, "for pay", boards where there is a cost to enter and share/gain information. It sucks because the community is vital to helping us all learn more about foreign toys and characters. Once its out in the open, it really is a free for all. This board in particular has a lot of visibility domestically and abroad. Just look at some of the resources that are available here. But it really sucks being in a position where you have to hold everything in silence, hold your breath, and hope no one else is looking. If it's online publicly, I just don't know to avoid it without being silent.
I recently asked hiddy about that clear red skullbrain on yahoo. He said it was fake but also said high price sales like this and more exposure "sweetens the pie". THe only problem with these high prices is being a completist. I say more exposure more toys! also patience pays off. I do often think about making this board private for registered users, but that will cut out any chances a marketing company coming to me with a "hot" way to expolit this stuff! PM me if you think this board should be private.
This is an interesting topic and I wish I had the time to do it justice, but I'm working, so I'll just comment when I have time. In relation to the above and focussing on SecretBase, the choices are increase supply to meet demand or keep the present model. The former would have some short term gains, but would cripple the brand in the medium term. The hardcore would keep collecting, but the lure of unniqueness and the limited edition would be gone. Mass market availablity signals death, and right we have three stores in the US which is just about enough. If I was behind the brand, I would expand production transparently (helped by the lack of production number availability), but keep it less than demand to maintain the hard-to-get factor. I would also be ready to respond flexibly in terms of run numbers with each new release, based on store feedback. SB has thrived with a loyal following for the last few years - as long as they can do what it takes to satisfy these guys (fanclub etc...) - then the trendy hangers on can come and go, but the brand will survive (I'm taking it as read that continued great product is delivered).
I agree Carl, also if they didnt expand run numbers it may weed out the less hardcore peeps and keep a "truer" fanbase..I'd like to see more available but finding stuff is def a thrill and makes collecting what it is for me..A challenge!!
Glenn- I can think of one instance where you posted something you were interested in, or looking for, and some one hooked you up w/ info, so the board payed off.I also agree with you about it hurting my personel collecting game, Im sure that you ,me, everyone has suffered in some way from the hype of a certain toy.I know I keep certain resources guarded, for fear of seeing all the toys dissapear over night.It sucks because that person would profit from me talking them and their products up on the board, but being selfish and fearing the annialation of the toy stock keeps me holding my cards close. Its a tricky game, this toy collecting.
Lately anything decent out there on YJ gets picked up on pretty much immediately anyway regardlessof whetehr its brought up (but posting it here certainly doesn't help you out in your quest), altho occasionally things slip thru and miraculosusly no one bids on it (case in point, pink skull brain for 5000. I saw it, but I was second in line thru Celga). After the post-Kozik boom I thought things would settle, but the new wave is even edgier. People really are prepared to pay huge bucks for a toy. I've been actively using Yahoo Japan for nearly 4 years now, and things were relatively staedy until the ante upped from mid 2005 to Halloween, then Halloween until Kozik completed his collection, then a brief ease off, and now its out of control!
A few things pop up in my mind.. It would really be a good idea not posting ebay / yja links from now on.. Last time I was bidding on something, I was praying that nobody would bring the link to the board or the price would skyrocket! I'm sure everybody here knows what i mean.. Also, I never speak of the new Kaiju toy I love on KR.. What's the point anyway? Pay more at the end because some lurkers will think it's the new trend or an easy way to make a fast $ ?
That has happened more than once, in fact many times. However, that seems to be changing, people will still help if they can but to some extent just asking about a figure seems to cause hype. I am not bagging on the people who just started collecting Japanese vinyl. The only difference between them and me is 12 months and the number of new collectors that got bit by the bug at the time I started. Heck, Frank and I ran up prices when we first started buying SB (even though they seem like deals today). Nobody is to blame but the fact is the fan base is now disproportionately larger than the run sizes. I think this might cause a change in people’s behavior. I
I think the current zoom is due to the overwhelming preference most people have for the older Skullbrains (sorry Bee fans) and that those just don't show up very much; and the Real Head factor. Those secret runs of <10 make for awesome toys but they just blister up the pricetag. Other than that, I cannot think of a lot that has been terribly out of control. New SB releases can still be had fairly soon after they come out, although they do evetually sell out and it's the dreamer who's had the newer SBxAtmos figs for $100 a pop that hasn't sold any. Older Skull Bees are all over YJA in the $40-60 dollar range. Gomillas can still be had for pretty stable and low prices, although I'd bet any older Sin & Wombat would up too. I love how Gargamel has stayed pretty consistent and stable - I've been able to slowly get the fight figs that appeal most to me and not pay too much for the Zokki ones I want as well. It's the Skullbrains and RH that are the most popular and so those auctions just fly. If S7 gets in plenty of that clear pink Chaosman that everyone on YJA BIN'd for $100 or more, then that could possibly depress price creep on non-secret release RH auctions, but it might take a couple of occurences for that to happen. I feel like that's that happened with Blobpus - pretty rare to find them on YJA, went for high prices when they did show, then American buyers have an easier, more stable connection through S7, and prices dropped. Recent newer Blobpus auctions seem pretty much about right to me. But again - get something older and harder to find and it's going to soar - and that's primarily because the fan base for them is increasing
I haven't really read this whole thread in its entirety (so if I restate something forgive me) but nobody is making anybody buy anything... And yes, of course Super7 is contributed to a growing fan base. Example, there seems to be more people collecting Balzac toys and I guess I can only blame myself for that. However, in the end, it really doesn't bother me. Personally, I do not think the sharing of info will stop. In the late '90s, after an article of mine was published on www.CoolJapaneseToys.com, a collector emailed me to tell me that he had gotten some hate email about my article saying I was ruining the toy line for all the true collectors by giving up the info... oh well.
This really illustrates something key... a forum like this or a magazine like S7 is a venue where we can interect and add in the social element to a pursuit that is largely web based for most of us (SF contingent excepted). I think most people want to prefer that to the alternative. But it can be easy to gnash your teeth when you're scooped on that long awaited piece. Heck, I don't even know if I want to see a Forest Secreter ever show up for sale again - knowing how it might antagonize me .
see, there's our answer. It's all Hensley's fault. really though, the way I see it is that no matter what, I really don't think there is a way to stop the rising popularity of something like this. you just have to wait it out. like Ramos said patience helps. the die hards will stay with it and eventually a lot of other people will move on to different things. nothing against anyone here, but we've seen it happen amongst our ranks - some people are no longer interested in secret base or gargamel and now only want real head or sin and wombat. I think this board is a valuable tool, as well as a cool place where I have met (well, e-met) some cool people. and I think it seems like a lot of people do look here for information. but whether we give up that info or not, people will find out about it somewhere. as someone else mentioned, the internet has opened almost limitless doors to find information. that being said, I can't say I've never been annoyed when I'm eyeing an auction or an upcoming new release only to have a million people jump all over it. things are definitely harder to get now.
How do people see the difference, if any, for purposes of this conversation between the "main" new wave vinyl boutique lines like SB, RxH, Gargamel, etc., versus the more traditional (though now being "updated") kaiju figures. I am on thin ice here because I don't have a good overall understanding of the japanese vinyl toy universe. So I am not even sure how to describe the difference between say a Mutant Head and a hedorah or a godzilla or whatever. I guess one difference is that some of these came directly from old movies and tv shows, and others didn't. But it seems there is more to it than that. I personally am not interested in the SB, RxH, BxH, etc. stuff. I own a rainy day ghost fighter, a clear mutant gid bb guy, a chicken fever and that's it. I routinely zap the secret base, real head, gargamel and bounty hunter threads on this board without even reading them. I focus primarily on the "japanese" toy thread. I may be wrong, but I get the sense that most peeps on this board are the opposite, and focus more on SB type toys. I just read what I wrote so far and it doesn't make much sense, so I'll stop now... But leave with a question... are we talking about all "kaiju" or mostly the SB stuff here in terms of what you are describing in the auctions and pricing?
I am not talking about vintage kaiju that is a whole separate beast. The pricing on "fight figures" offers the most dramatic example but even with new kaiju I think the same concerns apply. I took pictures of one of my favorite new toys yesterday and I actually got one really good picture. I was about to post the picture last night and I thought to myself, if I post this will I be able to get the next color way of this toy? The answer is positively no. I only saw two of this color on YJA and neither sold for very much. If I post this picture and 2 people decide they want one the next time one shows up the price could double. So I find myself only willing to talk about stuff everyone already knows about. Which makes me feel bad, but I am not really sure what I feel bad about. Maybe I am just paranoid.
As a collector, I like to share information, including pictures, with other like-minded folks about what I am collecting. That, it would seem, is what makes it a community. If we all just buy this stuff and keep it secret, it seems it would lead to paranoia, and would quickly lead to the demise of any sense of fraternity. Then the only real reason to be here would be to get information for our own private purposes, rather than to also share information with others. I think it is better to be open and celebrate the things we like, rather than guarding our "precious" toys in a cave under a mountain like Golem with his ring.
Personally it would really suck if collectors such as Knewnan stopped sharing information, knowledge, pictures, etc. . . I can't possibly obtain all the pieces myself and collect vicariuosly through everybody here. That being said there are some that choose not to play honorably and any information here can and will be used to profit off our passion for these figures. 2 cents
