Official Skullbrain Coronavirus COVID-19 thread.

Discussion in 'Whatever' started by Roger, Mar 2, 2020.

  1. ultrakaiju

    ultrakaiju Die-Cast Staff Member

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    Official Skullbrain Coronavirus COVID-19 thread.
    I get what you are saying Roger, but also if you change 'anti vaccine' to any other sort of chosen belief system/bias, say intolerance or hatred of race/sex/social grouping, you could very much say the same thing. And yet I would still not say I would turn a blind eye to those ideologies.
     
  2. Mr. Humphreys

    Mr. Humphreys Mini Boss

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    Excellent schematic explanation Stevie! :D Thank you for sharing this.
    Thanks too to everyone who chimed in with a comment to my question. I appreciate your discussion very much!
    I guess I wasn't clear that I wasn't so much concerned about the side effects, but with a vaccine created with mRNA. It seems still in the early phases of using this technique and having it FDA approved. The Covid vaccines received emergency approval, so it was fast tracked for useage. I do agree that if you have a relatively (everyone's definition of "relatively" is going to be different!) safe vaccine that will keep millions from dying, that you need to get it out there and not spend 10 years testing it before releasing it for use. This is my first pandemic, so it's thrown me for quite a loop both in thinking of it from a scientific stand point, as well as a practical living experience. I'm a little leery with how the vaccine was constructed with mRNA. I DO except that it will NOT alter your DNA, but how will that affect our immune systems and bodies in the future. Believe it or not, my sis in law is on the COMPLETE opposite end of the spectrum, and she refuses to get vaccinated, which personally, I think isn't the best decision. She hails from Korea, so she isn't looking at the scenario from western eyes, and she tells me that she won't get vaccinated as she isn't sure how this will effect her body in the future. I respect her choice, but that doesn't stop me from worrying about her.

    I did read some basic articles on mRNA. Here are some simplified explanations...
    https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/understanding/therapy/mrnavaccines/
    https://www.mskcc.org/coronavirus/what-s-different-about-messenger-rna-vaccines-covid-19
    https://www.phgfoundation.org/briefing/rna-vaccines

    There are many good technical publications that are easily accessed online.
    I decided to get the booster, so I'll be keeping my appointment, but will ask for the Pfizer version (my first two vacs were Pfizer) instead of the J&J.
    Thank you people! :)
     
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  3. Waterbear

    Waterbear Line of Credit

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    Does anyone have any solid information about what to do if you are allergic to the Mnra vaccines now that it's time to get a booster?

    A family member of mine had the severe reaction to moderna and ended up hospitalized for over two weeks with big tubes through her abdomen draining the sack around the heart to keep it beating. Had to be ventilated for several days as well. Just barely pulled through and it took months to finally recover. Never had covid at all, just a very bad reaction to the vaccine. The problem now is what to do about a booster. Every doctor I spoke to so far either said they would get back to me and never did or just didn't give me any answer at all. So what the fuck am I supposed to do? We can't go through that all over again but we need to be protected from covid, especially with the new version that is so much more contagious. Do we try and get the JJ instead? There seems to be no helpful data at all that I can find.

    For the record none of us are anti-vax at all. We all lined up to get the shot to protect ourselves and each other and the world in general.
     
  4. ultrakaiju

    ultrakaiju Die-Cast Staff Member

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    ^ It is a great question. To be honest, I am not sure that the 'vaccine' itself was the cause of any allergic reaction in this case, though definitely out of my fieldhouse. BUT, as with any drug, these vaccines/the active ingredient is packaged with a whole host of other excipients, many of which can elucidate a response just as you suggested. I honestly don't know how it works in the US, but they should have really covered this with your family member before administering the dose, this is true of any medication. No responsible physician would do something like that without adequate checks. At least in the UK, this screening questionnaire is a part of every injection process, as well as there being written material available at vaccination sites and posted inside each booth at the time of administration, which list - by requisite - all ingredients included. If these are not available for any reason I do suggest looking them up. I am not saying that you might even know you have an allergy to any of these but as with taking anything adverse reactions can be a problem, and the best thing to do is work with your physician to try and figure out what is causing that reaction. Though really, based on what you've said, their doctor should have already been through this process considering the severity. Switching vaccine types is an option as you suggested, but there is also no guarantee that whatever the ingredient was that provoked this response will not also be present in another formulation. (think of this cocktail as any foodstuff or cosmetic you might pull off a store shelf, and every ingredient should be checked)

    This should also have been logged on an adverse events form, these are super critical to record and track:
    https://modernacovid19global.com/ca...IVjc53Ch0L6QOpEAAYASAAEgJE_PD_BwE#why-moderna
    for Canada: Adverse Events Following Immunization (AEFI) Form

    This FDA sheet has some of the breakdown of the Moderna formulation as well,
    https://www.fda.gov/media/144638/download

    And here is some information from the NHS specifically related to allergic reactions to Moderna that might be useful to you:
    https://www.sps.nhs.uk/articles/adv...eir-suitability-for-covid-19-vaccine-moderna/
     
  5. Waterbear

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    There isn't any question as to what caused the reaction. We were told specifically by several doctors that the vaccine was the cause. It is actually a well documented but very rare side effect of both the mnra vaccines. The vaccine caused inflammation in the lining around the heart which had to be surgically drained and caused several other serious issues in the process. In my state out of over 2 million vaccines administered in a specific time frame 57 people had this exact side effect. So Like I said it is very rare but the cause is also not up for debate. The problem is no one knows specifically what causes the side effect. Hasn't been narrowed down to a certain ingredient or anything so avoiding it for someone who has already had the side effect seems to mean avoiding the pfizer and moderna in general. Which again leaves me stumped as to what they should do next.

    Among 2,000,287 individuals receiving at least 1 COVID-19 vaccination, 58.9% were women, the median age was 57 years (interquartile range [IQR], 40-70 years), 76.5% received more than 1 dose, 52.6% received the BNT162b2 vaccine (Pfizer/BioNTech), 44.1% received the mRNA-1273 vaccine (Moderna), and 3.1% received the Ad26.COV2.S vaccine (Janssen/Johnson & Johnson). Twenty individuals had vaccine-related myocarditis (1.0 [95% CI, 0.61-1.54] per 100 000) and 37 had pericarditis (1.8 [95% CI, 1.30-2.55] per 100 000).

    Since April 2021, increased cases of myocarditis and pericarditis have been reported in the United States after mRNA COVID-19 vaccination (Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna). Onset was typically within several days after mRNA COVID-19 vaccination, and cases have occurred more often after the second dose than the first dose. CDC and its partners are investigating these reports of myocarditis and pericarditis following mRNA COVID-19 vaccination.

    Myocarditis is inflammation of the heart muscle, and pericarditis is inflammation of the lining outside the heart. In both cases, the body’s immune system is causing inflammation in response to an infection or some other trigger. Symptoms can include chest pain, shortness of breath, or palpitations.1,2 The severity of cases of myocarditis and pericarditis can vary. For the cases reported after mRNA COVID-19 vaccination, most who presented to medical care have responded well to medications and rest, and had prompt improvement in symptoms.1

    Since April 2021, there have been increased reports to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) of cases of myocarditis and pericarditis happening after mRNA COVID-19 vaccination (Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna) in the United States. These reports are rare, given the number of vaccine doses administered, and have been reported after mRNA COVID-19 vaccination (Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna)
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2021
  6. KaosHead

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  7. ultrakaiju

    ultrakaiju Die-Cast Staff Member

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    @Waterbear Yep, totally - sorry that was probably just lost in the messaging, what I meant to say is these have been documented now, but are all very new [relatively] not no direct causal relationship has been established to the mRNA nanoparticles (which is what I meant by the 'vaccine') versus the other components that are also administered alongside the nanoparticles at the time of injection/vaccination.
     
  8. Mr. Humphreys

    Mr. Humphreys Mini Boss

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    And from that CDC article:
    "mRNA vaccines are newly available to the public. However, researchers have been studying and working with mRNA vaccines for decades."

    Research can go on for decades. It's the development, implementation, and documentation of subsequent understandings after active implementation that is critical to understand both immediate and long term effects. While I am not anti-vax, what worries me is that mRNA vaccines are new, and there isn't any long term understanding of possible negative effects.

    Thank goodness @Waterbear 's family member recovered. Cardiac edemas are very serious, and even though it's considered a "rare" reaction from the booster, something like that would certainly cause my demise (I'm not a spring chicken!). So from an immediate standpoint, do I risk the booster assuming I'm not going to contract a rare side effect? And from a long-term consideration, do I assume the mRNA reaction internally, won't trigger something else in the long term? And there's a risk of contracting Covid if I don't get a booster. I think most of the practicing docs in the USA can't answer our questions definitively, because an mRNA vax is new. Plus most treating docs are practitioners and don't necessarily have the in-depth research knowledge. We just don't have a clear understanding of long term effects in people. It seems to boil down to personal choice (eliminating all the fear mongering and conjecture being sold to the public as fact) and what risk we're willing to take (as there are varying levels of risk for each decision we make). So if you don't hear from me in 2022, someone will have to see about selling my toys (no, haven't gotten around to writing instructions yet, because there are literally no family members to survive me) :dam:
     
  9. Waterbear

    Waterbear Line of Credit

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    If you didn't get the VERY rare side effect from the initial vaccine doses the booster should be perfectly fine since it's even a lower dose.

    If you aren't a "spring chicken" I would worry way more avoid covid hurting you than any possible long-term effects which may or may not exist.

    It's all a personal choice but my main reason for getting vaccinated is to protect the people around me even if there is a small risk involved.
     
  10. Mr. Humphreys

    Mr. Humphreys Mini Boss

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    Yup! Considering all that, that's why I decided to keep the appointment and get the booster next week ☺️
     
  11. Roger

    Roger Prototype

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    Regarding VAERS, be careful, as you are drinking from a firehose of unverified reports, some of which have been deliberately filed by anti-vaxxers trying to undermine confidence in vaccines. There is a well-known case of a researcher who successfully filed a report saying that a vaccine turned him into the Incredible Hulk: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Laidler#Scientific_work
     
  12. hanxhill

    hanxhill Fresh Meat

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    My roommate always comes back with "I need more time to see what happens", and my response is "well time is ticking till you get it so you probably won't have the time you think you do".
     
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  13. zindabad

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    When herd immunity has the rest of the world entirely protected, I hope this stops being a politically divisive issue in the USA. Because if not, other countries will begin locking out Americans.

    I understand people being skeptical of public health programs given their history of spotty ethics. You'll be happy to hear that most of this happens overseas, such as when the CIA used a fake vaccine program in Pakistan to attempt finding Bin Laden. Suspicion persists, justified or not, and we remain one of the only countries in the world with serious polio problems. Although new infections appear to be dying out, which is nice.

    Anyway, if you're not allergic, please get your shot, do your bit to keep my grandparents alive when I travel, and email realbillgates@hotmail.com to receive your free Xbox.
     
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  14. Roger

    Roger Prototype

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    Just show him the first Avengers movie, and he will see how much the Hulk accomplished when fighting the Chitauri.
     
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  15. hanxhill

    hanxhill Fresh Meat

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    was the hulk on joe rogan, I don't know if I can trust him
     
  16. eckotyper

    eckotyper Post Pimp

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  17. eleggua

    eleggua Fresh Meat

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    Rogan, Norton and Jr, seperated at birth?

    Norton and Jr, the mouth action. Rogaine and Jr, the eyes have it.
     
  18. Roger

    Roger Prototype

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    I don't see it.
     
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  19. 666doll

    666doll Mini Boss

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    I don't get it?
     
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  20. trueadrn

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    I don't want it.
     
  21. hanxhill

    hanxhill Fresh Meat

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    do you think the incredible hulk would try to suck his own dick as well?
     
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  22. Waterbear

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    A follow up to my previous question about how to boost if you can't take a Pfizer/Moderna vaccine again. Looks like boosting other vaccines with JJ is very effective. Possibly more effective than boosting with the same vaccine you already got.

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/30/health/jj-covid-booster-omicron/index.html

    Using the J&J vaccine as a booster for people who originally got two doses of Pfizer/BioNTech's vaccine generated a 41-fold increase in neutralizing antibodies and a five-fold increase in the CD8 killer T cells that destroy cells infected by the virus. That stops the virus from replicating and spreading. Boosting with the Pfizer vaccine generated a 17-fold increase in neutralizing antibodies and a 1.4-fold increase in CD8 T cells four weeks later, they found.
     
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  23. 666doll

    666doll Mini Boss

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    ^^^^^
    Shite, maybe I should have gotten the JnJ instead of my initial two full doses of Pfizer and again with the booster... well, maybe again in another six months. I mean, that "is" where we're headed.
     
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  24. Waterbear

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    Life goals!

     
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  25. Anti Social Andy

    Anti Social Andy Die-Cast

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    Just an uninformed Brits 2c worth . . . Despite our best efforts in masking up, sanitising and avoiding dirty stinking apes wherever possible, 'rona caught up with Mrs Anti Social and I over Christmas. We both had 2 x AZ followed up with a Pfizer booster and presume it's the latest (weaker) variant as presentations weren't as bad as an annual common cold.

    Interestingly our initial symptoms were totally different with my wife suffering from a super-scratchy sore throat and myself being hit with a couple of days of bad migraines. 10 days in, and after a week or so of general coughing/sneezing/snottiness, it feels like we are both back on track.

    We also had our kids up for the holidays (prior to us testing positive), all who had tested negative prior to travelling, been vaccinated (boosters pending) and already had Covid during the earlier waves (working in hospitals/service industry in central London), and despite spending the week with them in a Covid petri dish of a home, none of them tested positive prior to heading home (or subsequently).

    It's not in the virus's best interests to kill the host. It's aim is to simply replicate and spread, and it feels like this latest variant has achieved this, but with the enhanced vaccination programme, subliminal population education (mask/distance/sanitize), increasing herd immunity and the unfortunate deaths of many of the more vulnerable in the earlier waves, it's starting to feel like a corner is being turned . . . even to a pessimistic Yorkshireman!

    I'm hoping *crosses fingers* that by the time winter comes next year that it will be more on par with a regular cold/flu, with a close watch needed on the variants to catch any major changes/problems/flare-ups before they become too problematic (Governments should be starting to get a grip on how to handle these incidents . . . but that still seems to be a stumbling block).
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2022

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