that's fine then there's no more Halloween movies that can be "made" I got into bolt thrower last year after a buddy made me a lifting mix, I honestly didn't even know if they were still a band as their website looks like its from 1998
After seeing everything , I’d like to express where I think some of the confusion is that is triggering people, my interpretation at least. Firstly as soon as someone engages in whatever activity in any way you can’t really say well there’s nothing you can do about it anyway anymore as an argument because it takes on different meaning, I mean I can’t do anything about drugs being sold but as soon as I step into that world, whether I funded them or got it for free, and start using those same drugs or sell em myself, I have made the active decision to do something about it and if using that argument then the same mentality of “if I can’t beat em, join em” is applied (and I don’t think that’s the case), because not engaging in it Was doing something about it in that context , leaving it to the others and outside your home. Do you know what I mean, Robert? I understand your point but because a decision was made to sell the bootleg, Joe did do something and endorsed the selling of them, regardless of intentions. Secondly, I can understand why people are upset, it’s not about not being transparent in what you are selling or being fair about the price, not at all, I for one have no questions about Joe’s character and think that rhetoric , wherever it’s happening, needs to stop, but Joe I do get why people have a bad taste from that decision to sell a current maker x collaborator’s boot. Does it seem ridiculous for anyone to be upset? I get that too. I have this problem with empathy and feeling multiple sides, seriously it’s allowed me to be betrayed multiple times by the same people cause I’m too damn sympathetic. BUT, my point, I think it was a very confusing choice to sell a bootleg in a hobby where that is frowned upon because so much emphasis and the life of the fan base is supporting the artist and the “real deal” is held in SUCH high regards, then too instead of getting a toy from Rich (even though it may not have been exactly the same thing) to do the MashUp where the heart of the movement in that support would have remained reflected, the attention & support people are instead seeing goes over that line to the one bootlegging y’all’s work and brings it into your house with an okay and a word of approval (doesn’t matter where you got it from, it’s what you are showing others). So I can also understand why people would think it’s a jab against Rich. I know it wasn’t! But I can understand why that thought would be there based on what everyone was exposed to when in their minds you are supposed to have disdain for these bootleggers. It may seem silly if meditating on the perception that people take this hobby too seriously, and of course there are those people, but it is honestly a hobby that dedicated fans are just going to take seriously, and it was a move that genuinely causes strong feelings where strong feelings from your devoted fans are what kept them coming to you and away from the bootleggers. It’s not silly to so many people who not only choose to but who also love to support your work and feel an attachment to the hobby. I just know this is a road that if everyone did more of or became more okay with it would change everything, including the devotion of fans that allow it to happen, this isn’t the music or movie industry. And now that it got your stamp, Joe, more people will think it’s okay. That’s just reality. Enter the current maker bootleg skullbrain threads That part’s a joke. But it’s not just a divisive topic in this hobby about what side of the fence you’re on, it was about the tribe living in the village and the bandits being outcast to the mountains, sure a villager may go to the mountains and exchange with the bandits here and there, but the bandits still remain at large on the outs. I may sound over dramatic but there’s always a first one through the gate, it always starts somewhere, even though we as humans rarely take anything seriously until we are overrun and it’s a problem . I just encourage you, Joe, to meditate more on it and know that these people are upset because being so loyal and with everything that was held high, there’s a feeling of betrayal me thinks. AGAIN, I know there was nothing close to that in your motivations and I get why you wanted to, wanting that marbling etc, but sometimes there’s more at play in our decisions than we may see at the time. God knows I have regrets that were good decisions at the time, and because of your motivations being innocent and nothing like all this that’s sprouting from having made the move, I get too why it may be hard to understand the upset. Anyway, I’ve rambled long enough. I hope you know I am not speaking from anger or preaching ill will, my response more so comes from seeing everyone’s reactions and hearing yours and just kind of trying to bridge the gap a little bit. I don’t have any bad feelings towards you AT ALL. I understand, I know you didn’t mean anything. And people need to back off a little bit. But I do get the heightened feelings too.
"The secret of happiness is not found in seeking more, but in developing the capacity to not really give a fuck." - - Anti Social Andy
I just paid more attention to what you were linking to. Well damn. It is going to be interesting to see what is going on in 10 years (and what Covid strain mutations have become by then - I’m hoping kaiju) .
As artists and humans it’s important we mitigate. You can’t mitigate with provocative people that want to chaos… If Trolls choose to make bootlegs what do collectors and artists do with these bootleg objects? History has taught us that Bootlegs are obviously not worthless… some fetching more than original works. where does the worth lay? Within the object or idea? There is a interesting conversation loaded with nuance and history.
^^^ Has anyone actually purchased from this source? Is there not a chance that the pics are being used as examples only of what it's possible to produce for that price-point? Also bizarre is the minimum order size jumping from 1 to 1,000 with no great difference in unit cost. As an old friend once said - 'I wouldn't touch it . . . even with yours!'
The democratization of access can be a pain in the arse when your whole biz runs on your artisan hands making precious objects. Good on those factories for getting in on the action, Im wating for a chance to get that slugdie with a pad printed apple logo on its forehead. I wish I could order from those sites, but German import fees have already decided that for me... which I thank them for. The convo about makers doing or not is just a forest fully logged. And there doesnt seem to be many makers like Joe that want to excavate the roots on their sides just to help us toynerds feed the need to want more infos. The real point I enjoy from Joe is that he is right on how derivative ad nauseam this environment is. And were all silent with the next exed-out four eyes in a garamon colorway and chrome penis thing gets all the IG pics with its mandatory NNN/HxS toy in the background. It's just the same boring tried stuff. Iuno, I wish that chinese factory gets a SB godzilla, that would be tooling I would clap hard for if bootlegged right.
I suppose we have to assume that is the case. What i don't understand is why there are so many different examples being used of sofubi and mass production Medicom stuff.
Not sure why discussing bootlegs is such a hot topic? This is a chatboard mainly about plastic dollies. Why cant we discuss and share opinions on the subject? Admittedly I haven't read every recent post on this thread. What am I missing?
Little else of interest out there these days and it helps pass time whilst isolating . . . what's your excuse?
Wow have you guys seen these boots? It's crazy how people can do this without any repercussion. I'm sick to my stomach, shocked even.
They’re more than likely examples. I’ve used Alibaba to get my frog pin produced, all the photos used were examples of pins they can produce. The price range was also not set in stone. They adjusted the price based off of size, number of colors, and amount ordered. I’m sure it’s the same for these “sofubi” producers.
I wonder if the creator of Alibaba sees the irony in the name of his creation, given the now dubious reputation of said web site, or if the specific tale from Arabian Nights was unknown to him/her at the time of the sites inception? Serendipity or just another example of the blue pill?
@boon velvet Sorry it’s taken a bit to respond! Your wrote a lot and my comprehension is slowly deteriorating at my nearing 36 years of age! I basically read all of that walked away with “If someone like Joe did it, then others will”, and that very well could be the case. Who knows. But I personally don’t see more and more major artists, or even independent artists, goin’ to town just ‘cause Joe did it. At least not any more than who already have and either haven’t said anything publicly, or just did it once/a few times to have fun with it. In my opinion, there’s no difference between Joe buying a bootleg to paint and sell because he wanted to know what it’d look like, and Rich stripping RxH and Secret Base fighters, painting them and selling them back in the day. That also caused some outrage because of the scarcity and difficulty of obtaining those fighters and the fact that Mori and Goto - San’s work was disrespected in the eyes of some by being stripped. And on the subject of “X did it, so now Y might do it”, I immediately think of all these insane price hike standards, cool kids clubs, shutting a lot of collectors out, pricing collectors out, secret sales; all that shit. That was very much a trickle down situation to me and it’s become a pretty regular occurrence now. I’d even go so far as to say that’s probably why Zheng started bootin’ shit in the first place. Happens to Supreme and similar for the same, exact reasons, but I understand why it’s a much more niche situation for something like sofubi. I’m not sayin’ I agree with it, I’m not sayin’ it’s good, I get why it’s upsetting, and I’m not sayin’ people need to be for or against, specifically. We can’t beat ‘em, but that also doesn’t mean we *have* to join ‘em, and that was my point. If someone does and you have your hard stance for against it, that’s fine. If someone’s against it and you agree/disagree with them, that’s fine too. All this fuckin’ outrage and even some personal jabs at Joe, while people were ironically wondering if painting the boot was a jab at Rich, and I still haven’t had my inquiry answered about why no one gives a shit that Paul, Joe and Jon have also been bootlegged.
You're talking about stripping and painting (done to paul, joe, rich, many other makers) compared to actual counterfeiting and saying its the same thing. no it's not... it's still a authentic item with paint being taken off and repainted, versus a counterfit. those are two totally different things. as my slowly deteriorating mind can remember as well, I believe rich was grabbing items that were available but not necessarily in high demand to paint at the time. (for the most part, I don't recall the story of the Nag or the Kougai's)... Hell i've did the same thing... I've rummaged through S7's old bargain bin, and went up and down the BST/Mandarake buying up items peopele/stores had up forever and painted them. Would you say that's the same as counterfeiting? I don't know how you dont see the difference... in scenario 1 Mori still got his $ at the point of sale for his work. in scenario 2 Zheng got his $ at the point of sale for Rich/Joe's work. That alone should be enough to establish right or wrong. 2 sides of the fence it seems like. There's those that clearly see this wrong, and the other side that does not like counterfeiting from the core, but has justifications for why in this instance it gets a pass. While i'd like to think we could continue on with all this. words go in one ear and out the other both ways as we have our personal views on the matter. was a paul sculpt every fully counterfeited? I ask because of my memory and I can only go off of what Zheng currently has up on his feed. I think joe was for the uncle steve if memory does serve me correct. you did... the emoticons make it seem as if you're upset/angry about the counterfeiting, but a respected artist painting a counterfeit gets a pass? i would too it's not by proxy anymore. 1 or 1,000 it's still shitty it just seems as your views on the thread title changed depending on the situation... Joe's too for that matter.. We have a 20+ page thread on Zheng and his bootlegging, with joe having some pretty strong feelings on the subject early on yet didn't think that much into it before doing so... I honestly can't belive this thread started back in 2017, and that Zheng has kept this up for over 4 years
As Roger previously wrote here, Skullbrain could have an AI that auto-detects sarcasm and makes the text purple automatically.
