still, a gun shot or a flash or a horrified look on Meadow's face... then to to black.. at least. weak
Email exchange between me and my guitarist..I am liking the ending more and more, thinking about it in this light: You know what…up to now, I had thought of that as just one interpretation, but…I think you’re right. He’s really dead. That’s what we were shown. All of these reasons you’ve named support that….and you know what else your email made me think of? All of those shots of Meadow struggling to parallel park- what is the significance of any of that if not to underscore that the timing was just perfect- that her ridiculous struggle ended just when it needed to for her entry (and completion of their nuclear family gathering) to be the very last thing seen/experienced by Tony? Also- note how they were arranged at the table: Tony sits by himself on one side…directly aligned with that bathroom….this was clearly done to reduce the likelihood/implication that another family member could’ve been killed during the hit- eliminating any messy, post-story conjecture about such a thing. Clean. ________________________________________ From: Alen Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 11:08 AM To: Michael Subject: RE: Tony Soprano called.... we watched it this morning at 6am he gets whacked. Why you ask? here are my reasons: 1. earlier in the season in a convo w/ Bobby, Tony clearly states his idea that when you go everything just goes to black. You dont even know what hit you. 2. They killed Phil in front of his wife and grandkids, which meant Tony was fair game to be offed in front of his family. Patsy Parisi or even Paulie could have been responsible for giving away the locale. 3. Tony was in hot water with the feds and was already talking to Agent Harris. This could have provided justification to off him. .....plus I dont think Chase would ever give the big hollywood ending all the simpletonians want...Tony dying in the arms of a tearful Carmela....puke. That kind of melodrama would be so forced. By doing it this way he avoids the sympathy that he knows Tony doesn't deserve. So I'm happy with my own interpretation and I'm stickin' with it.
Any views or terminology presented in the lower half of the post reflect the opinions of my friend and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of ungawa222...you simpletonian.
I'll happily join that club. The tension leading up to that moment of blackness had my heart racing and when it finally hit I felt the shock of the silence but then relief. How did you guys feel about the Kevin Finnerty stuff at the beginning of Season 6?
Brilliant. Loved it. Relieved they avoided a cliche ending, bloodbath or otherwise. I understand why lots of fans are pissed. FUCK 'EM!!! All Sopranos (tony, carmella, a.j., & meadow) have grown as individuals, but are essentially the same people. After all they've been thru, their essential nature's remain unchanged. I appreciated this most of all because the older I get, the more I see this in people, animals, nature, human nature. I think the "lyrical" content of the final (awful) song, was intended to address our (the audience's) emotional attachment to the Soprano family. On some level, we identify with the Sopranos and are attracted to them; for all their faults, they're scrappy and passionate and love each other fiercely; and of course tony soprano is a stud/alpha-male -- sure he's a fat pig, but lots of broads/fans think he's soooo sexy -- think back to when tony was in a coma as kevin finnerty, he sucked cuz he was normal, "neutered", no longer our macho fantasy stand-in. Anyway, the point is most fans are attracted to or identify with the Sopranos for whatever reasons and I think most fans will admit secretly or not that we want the Sopranos to succeed, to change for the better, rise above their human frailties to become happy(-er) people and a more functional family. When you think about it, they really have achieved what most people believe to be the American Dream just a few generations off the boat from Italy. "...don't stop, believing...hold onto that dream, oh yeah..." It's also a good song choice for tony to make, since he has a strong sentimental streak (edit: could have sworn he passed over "my way" but after watching a second time, I was wrong). But let's face it, it was going to end badly for tony soprano, one way or the other. He was even peeling/eating an orange halfway thru the episode!! Talk about a deathwish.
I haven't yet seen the finale but read an analysis that indicated that three people in the restaurant at the end were characters from past seasons (one from as far back as season two) who all had reasons to off Tony. This analyst said that the final moments were supposed to be more or less from Tony's perspective. The abrupt fade-to-black was thus supposed to indicate that indeed, he died, and didn't see it coming. From the get-go of this final season, I've been grateful that the producers/writers didn't do the Godfather-style big blow-out that so many fans wanted so badly. It would have been out of character for the show. Ambiguity and different ways of interpreting the same things have been integral since the very first episode, when Tony felt that the ducks meant something, but could never quite figure out what, not even with Melfi's help. Anyway, if I don't like the ending when I see it, it won't spoil the experience of enjoying the best television series, ever. I'm glad they ended it before it became lame and fizzled off that bad overripe X-Files/Twin Peaks land of "who cares anymore?"
David Chase is hardly a moron. The guy is the brain behind the most successful TV show in history. I'm pretty confident that the most people, over time, are going to recognize what a great ending it was. If you thought the show was going to end in a cliched way, or that loose ends were going to be tied up (or some other hackneyed ending like Tony being brought to justice or being killed for his sins) then you just weren't watching the same show as most other people. That was one of the many cool things about the show - it, like real life, didn't have nice tidy endings, issues and conflicts were not always resolved, and the story unfolded in unexpected ways. Chase never insulted the intelligence of the viewer by telling them what to think or making the plots predictable or trite ('cause life ain't like that either). Give the ending some more time to work on you - if nothing else, it's very effective because everyone's talking about it and we've all been forced to reflect on it. Everyone also thought the Ramones sucked at first (and Van Gogh too for that matter, among many others). Time always gives us a better perspective on things. You'll see.
I pretty much just agree with we were brought into their lives out of nowhere (i.e. not at the beginning of their lives) and randomly taken back out of it. Brought in when the kids were young and in school and taken out when they are starting their own lives. They go on like everyone else.
I just wish his kids got popped. They remind me of the spoiled pricks I went to highschool with. oh yeah and Journey's Faithfully as the last song??????? Without a doubt one of the worst songs in the history of recorded sound.
"Faithfully" would've been a godawful choice...but the tune was "Don't Stop Believin'", actually. I'm not a Journey fan, but I felt it fit perfectly- the driving, upbeat optimism of the the song only added to the tension, and what better for this show/that character (Tony) to go out on than a classic Jersey shore tune?
"The smell of wine and cheap perfume" I stand corrected. You make some good points but.. either way any journey song lacks optimism classic Jersey shore tune? is that a positive?
It is if you grew up there and have the typical love/hate, begrudging fondness for NJ culture....as I do...
We watched it with a friend of ours that absolutely despises all Journey tunes---she had to listen to that song and then "black" nothing set in...we all thought our cable went out for a second, then we were like "wtf?!"...it was a pretty good ender, all in all, and really, how can you end a show like that and please everyone? I loved when Phil got popped though...never did like that guy---but the truck roll was over the top! lol...literally! Guess I'll have to get the whole series on dvd someday...
Had to resurrect this thread...great analysis here...wait 'til you've got some time for a lengthy read, tho: http://www.bobharris.com/content/view/1406/1/
Even though there may be a half-dozen obscure hints at what the final scene actually means, an ending that takes this much work to interpret is not a good ending. Ever have to explain a joke that falls flat, for a longer time than it took to originally tell the joke? Same thing going on here. I was never really dedicated to this show. I never got HBO, I never owned the DVDs, and I’ve probably only seen about 2/3 of the episodes, so you can take my opinion as you wish: thumbs down. (I'm going to be at that Barnes and Noble in Phil's death scene tonight, incidentally.)
Long time, die-hard fan of the show. Seen every episode at least two or three times. Loved the ending. Unintentionally ambiguous endings are usually "bad" -- indicates the creator didn't know what s/he was trying to do, didn't have time or inclination to figure it out. Intentionally ambiguous endings aren't necessarily bad -- thoughtful intent on the creator's part to end without closure or full resolution. "Ever have to explain a joke that falls flat, for a longer time than it took to originally tell the joke? Same thing going on here." Have to strongly disagree. A joke is something like: a + b = c, or setup + payoff = satisfaction. The reason many people dislike the soprano's ending (and ambiguous endings in general), is that it offers no "payoff", it's really half a joke. "So a man walks into a bar." The end? It really doesn't even matter to me whether tony (r.i.p.) is dead or not. For me, in a lot of ways, the Sopranos ended a few weeks back with the Vegas episode, when Tony took peyote then exclaimed "I get it" as he stared out into a desert sunrise. In the next episode, he explained his experience to dr.melfi and surprised her (and me) with the existential understanding he had come to. As far as I'm concerned, this is/was the final point in the arc of his character. From the first episode, what made tony interesting to me was his existential turmoil. From his very first sessions with dr. melfi he struggled with the ultimate purpose or meaning of a world with so much pain, suffering and cruelty (of which he was both victim and perpetrator). What made tony fun of course was that he was a mob boss (as opposed to a solar heating salesman), owned a strip club, had a colorful crew etc. Speaking of ambiguous endings, I've seen 2001 at least a dozen times and I still don't get the ending entirely. And I still love the movie. Every time I see it I gain a better understanding of the ending, deeper appreciation for the movie. Hope they do criterion sopranos boxset at some point. Hey Ungawa, thanks for the link to the awesome analysis!!
I hope the fat fuck got whacked. 2 bad you dont get to see meadow get a face full of brainsplatter. ending of 2001: the 'superior entities' that left the monuments transform Bowman into a new super-evolved 'star child' and he travels back to earth in order to usher in a new stage of human evolution.
He did. Thanks!! Now I won't have to read the book or see 2010 (as people have suggested). After seeing Contact a while ago I understood the hotel setting at the end of 2001, but the rest of it still eluded me. It all makes sense now. "Embryonic, super- evolved Bowman." Damn, those aliens were s-m-r-t.
