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Point:

http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/press-cen ... e-children

Counterpoint:

http://www.vinyltoys.com/


Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:44 pm
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Roger wrote:
Pickle, one more thing to bum you out aside from the toxicity issues: plastics are made from oil, oil that we and our manufacturers have to buy from countries we really don't like all that much.

You could also argue that if we weren't making so many luxury items out of plastic, the price of the raw materials would go down so that the really essential stuff like syringes, PVC pipes, etc. would get cheaper and make peoples' lives around the world, especially in developing nations, a little easier, but that's probably stretching it. ;p



i know this is totally out in left field, but recently i have stopped watching pro wrestling for a reason what you said above has made me think of.

i have been a pro wrestling fan for over 20 years (through good and bad believe me) but this latest steroid shit has me turning it off completely.

i understand it is up to each individual performer in the industry what he does with his body, but these large companies (WWE, TNA) that evidently do not have a proper program in place to prevent all the drug use i cannot support. they are perpetuating the horrible lifestyle that is leaving so many of these guys dead before they are 50. i feel guilty providing ratings/revenue for a company that doesnt care about its employees enough.

sorry for yet another tangent

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Chriz74 wrote:
Oh jesus what a bunch of nerds.


Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:45 pm
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Roger wrote:
pickleloaf wrote:
i cant believe on an otherwise nondescript saturday night i have found myself second guessing this collecting of mine :?
Oh, stop. Do you eat meat?


no

i do eat cheese and wear leather though :o

and drive a normal ol gas car.

some things are easier to control than others for me

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Chriz74 wrote:
Oh jesus what a bunch of nerds.


Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:46 pm
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pickleloaf wrote:
i know this is totally out in left field, but recently i have stopped watching pro wrestling for a reason what you said above has made me think of.

i have been a pro wrestling fan for over 20 years (through good and bad believe me) but this latest steroid shit has me turning it off completely.

i understand it is up to each individual performer in the industry what he does with his body, but these large companies (WWE, TNA) that evidently do not have a proper program in place to prevent all the drug use i cannot support. they are perpetuating the horrible lifestyle that is leaving so many of these guys dead before they are 50. i feel guilty providing ratings/revenue for a company that doesnt care about its employees enough.

sorry for yet another tangent
I can understand why you'd be upset about this, but as you said, those wrestlers do that to themselves willingly and fully conscious of what might happen.

If you look around your house, even at the clothes you're wearing right now, you will probably find dozens and dozens of items that were assembled by grade school aged children who were paid less than what you feed into a parkway meter every month.

That's the stuff that's worth agonizing about.

Sweet dreams. ;p


Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:50 pm
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yea, i can point to a number of things that i chewed on/ate/whatever as a kid and i think i am healthy now. i used to chew on star wars figures like crazy! :)

on the one hand i do feel guilty sometimes supporting what seem to be harmful things, but at the same time i look at it on a more personal level and see that i dont really know anyone harmed by so many of these things... so maybe it isnt so bad?

i dont want to sound like a militant environmentalist kind of person or whatever.... i'm really not... but sometimes i feel better about how i live when i step back and try to be more responsible about what i might be leaving behind.

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Chriz74 wrote:
Oh jesus what a bunch of nerds.


Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:52 pm
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The documentary "Blue Vinyl" talks about the environmental/health hazards of vinyl. It was interesting. But unlike "Supersize Me", which was so effective a film that it made me essentially stop eating any fast food ever since I saw it, "Blue Vinyl" hasn't stopped me from collecting vinyl toys.

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Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:54 pm
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Roger wrote:
I can understand why you'd be upset about this, but as you said, those wrestlers do that to themselves willingly and fully conscious of what might happen.

If you look around your house, even at the clothes you're wearing right now, you will probably find dozens and dozens of items that were assembled by grade school aged children who were paid less than what you feed into a parkway meter every month.

That's the stuff that's worth agonizing about.

Sweet dreams. ;p


next i'm gonna find out plasma tv pumps poisonous gases into hospital nurseries and this laptop gives puppies cancer!

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Chriz74 wrote:
Oh jesus what a bunch of nerds.


Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:55 pm
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el word wrote:
The documentary "Blue Vinyl" talks about the environmental/health hazards of vinyl. It was interesting. But unlike "Supersize Me", which was so effective a film that it made me essentially stop eating any fast food ever since I saw it, "Blue Vinyl" hasn't stopped me from collecting vinyl toys.
Awesome, I didn't know about this. It's in my Netflix queue now, right after "Sayonara Jupiter."


Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:57 pm
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It focuses on vinyl siding for houses. But it is a good watch, and it's informative. I just didn't find it that compelling.

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Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:00 pm
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all of our lifestyles sit on top of a huge pyramid of death and pollution.

My household ranks in the
top 1% of all the current 'income/lifestyle' pyramids out there, worldwide. I'll bet most of yours do as well.

every single 'modern' amenity you see as a basic need...fresh food at the store, efficient transportation, clothing, electric lights, indoor plumbing, water on tap ( hot and cold), 24 hour entertainment, the internet, freedom from slavery, war, famine. a life span longer t han 30 or so years, rel;ative good health...all of that is ONLY there because of the industrial revolution.

theres no giong back ever, until it all collapses and a few hundred thousand survivors start it all over again.

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Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:02 pm
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i am very thankful that i live in a place where these things are afforded to me

but at the same time i feel like i should at least try to make steps to better what i can in that framework. i don't want to tear it all down... i want to embrace all the advances while finding better ways to do things.

i feel better knowing i at least do little things.

(like using shopping bags of my own instead of the plastic ones at the store!)

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Chriz74 wrote:
Oh jesus what a bunch of nerds.


Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:10 pm
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I am a recycling nazi and pay for and plant trees. I also dont buy diamonds or marijuana ( both those industries are insanely evil as far as human death and suffering). I dont eat at fast food restaurants or any restaurant where the meat comes from outside the US. I chose not to have children, it dies with me.

I figure thats my part.

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Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:14 pm
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OK. now I feel depressed :(


Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:31 pm
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Frank Kozik wrote:
I chose not to have children, it dies with me.

I figure thats my part.


Curious. How is not having children beneficial in your view?
Overpopulation?

I ask as someone who doesn't and won't have any myself.

I admire the other steps you take though I buy the 42o.
Make it a legal crop and tax and sell it.
Less harmful and destructive than alcohol.


Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:52 pm
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liquidsky wrote:
I admire the other steps you take though I buy the 42o.
Make it a legal crop and tax and sell it.
Less harmful and destructive than alcohol.
Once it's legal, that would be ideal, but for now you're just pumping more money into a corrupt infrastructure.

But you're doing the same by buying toys, anyway. ;p


Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:10 pm
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Roger wrote:
liquidsky wrote:
I admire the other steps you take though I buy the 42o.
Make it a legal crop and tax and sell it.
Less harmful and destructive than alcohol.
Once it's legal, that would be ideal, but for now you're just pumping more money into a corrupt infrastructure.

But you're doing the same by buying toys, anyway. ;p


Grow your own.

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Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:19 pm
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locomoto566 wrote:
Grow your own.
Can't. OSHA regulations. ;p


Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:39 pm
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Late to this thread. Although I can't say I appreciated seeing my comments repeatedly labelled as "idiotic," as I know myself to be no idiot, I'm not thin-skinned, admire Frank and like him just fine, and there was no way a drama bomb was going to go off in that other thread. At least I wasn't going to light any fuses and it didn't seem like Frank was headed in that direction either. Anyway, I'm glad that the issues got talked out in better detail in this thread. Good reading.

Some of you might have seen Mark Nagata's recent article on the perpetual toxicity of vinyl. It was more from a personal/philosophical perspective than technically informative, but he summed it up by basically saying "I choose to live with the risk of having vinyl in my household because my love of the toys outweighs my worries." That's a total paraphrase but that was the gist. We all bargain with the devil in life and I think Mark's summary is probably how most if not all of us feel about collecting toxic monsters when all is said and done.


Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:10 am
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Frank Kozik wrote:

1. My experience is that Japan is highly polluted.

2. no 'acceptable' alternate materials exist. Vinyl is vinyl. it has that lustrous feel because it is in effect 'alive'..that means its constantly outgassing. Long molecular chains...the longer a molecule, the more unstable, especiallly when the solvents outgas and UV hits it. thats why it degrades. Now, you cant destroy or create matter, only transmute, so when the molecules in vinyl 'fall apart' they enter the biosphere, and, those molecules are toxic.

you CAn make toys out of ABS ( hard plastic) but they do not feel the same, are way more expensive to manufacture, and the few companies that try it meet extreme resistance because 'collectors' dont like it.

ABS wil take longer to degrade, but degrade it will.\\\the nicer and silkier the vinyl...the more solvents.

the solvents are basically carbonhexa or tetra chloride ( like drycleaning fluid)

the solvents are the primary polluters.

thats why theres almost no more rotocast on any level in any countries with pollution laws.
You should be my Chemistry teacher!

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Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:12 am
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Image

An alternative, safe collection?

Damn - those 2 stroke chainsaws are major polluters! What to do???


Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:35 am
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Thanks for the science dropped on the "Man Behind the Curtain", Frank.

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Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:51 pm
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nice avatar,abe

here's a pic of him owning kamala jr.


Image

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Chriz74 wrote:
Oh jesus what a bunch of nerds.


Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:33 pm
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so I have a question.....

if all this vinyl around me is constantly "out-gassing" toxic fumes, isn't that hazardous to our health?

is that why i'm taking double hits on my inhaler????

now that I think about it, I feel like i'm suffocating!

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Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:16 pm
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yep.

u know that 'smell' when u open a box or bag of Kaiju?

pure poison.

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Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:24 pm
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how long till we find that our chinese made - vinyl (incl. bounty hunter) has lead paint?!?!?!

ALSO abdullah forking someone always makes me lol... i have no idea why

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he looks like hes got anus hands.

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Last edited by abelincolnjr on Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:37 pm
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