I don't really want to start a huge political thing here (so mods feel free to delete this thread if it seem inappropriate)...

but I was wondering, why should Tibet be freed? everytime i see hooligans on the news, i just see "free Tibet". when i read the news, the only explanation is because their human rights are being violated. what the fuck does that mean? does china like to kill and put people in jail just for kicks? are they praying to the wrong god?

on the opposite side of the spectrum, some say that it is just a ploy to split an uprising superpower. I tend to think somewhere in the middle, since I feel that both sides are filled with propaganda.

so I was wondering if someone could shed some light.. if I went out and protested and Tibet was set free, should I pat myself on the back do these protesters really understand the issue, or is it just the cool thing to do?

Wow- your media sounds very bias.

China invaded Tibet and basically pillage all of its resources and make the native Tibetian population live as second class citizens under the rich chinese who live and goven it now.

I would hardly call the protesters 'Hooligans' I mean their country was taken from them, what do you expect them to do? I really support all of these protest and think they are doing an amazing job- I mean in London the tourch was snatched and in Paris it even had to be put out.

On another note- I really hope for the next olympics in London 2012 there is the same level of protest against the British over the war in Iraq, the hiporcrisy within our govenment and media condemming China is hillarious as there are so many paralells between Tibet and Iraq.

More civilians have died and been displaced in Iraq than in the whoie occupation of Tibet.

I am a little curious about this also...and regrettably ignorant on the subject. I always just figured that they would like to be independent, but China wants to keep them around as a novelty. Monks and sherpas don't seem too likely to rise up in a rebellion against the massive hordes of Red China, so it would appear that any change would require outside intervention.


oh yeah...and it is quite fashionable to wear the slogan on your chest or cap!


(edit): Also, I'm not sure if China gives a rat's ass if other countries boycott their Olympics or not...it doesn't really hurt them any if we don't go, but doesn't do much to improve relations with a country with a massively growing economy and insatiable hunger for resources. I'm not saying we need to kiss their butts, but it couldn't hurt to "make nice" with them and really try to work things out. Of course, we are so busy winning a losing war and ignoring other human rights atrocities that Tibet seems like it is way on the current administration's back-burner, if it is even on the stove at all...

http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.wordpress.com/2008/01/23/18-awareness/

Note: I am also curious to hear from people with actual information. Like rhino, I get the feeling that the true issues are lost among the media buzzwords.

Yes - according to China.

I don't know too much, but I fail to see how anyone can be on China's side of this issue. From what I understand there's nothing in it for China other than "pride" - they can't let Tibet go because they'll look weak. They view the land as their land and are unwilling to let Tibetans live according to their culture and beliefs on Chinese soil.

China kidnapped the Panchen Lama with the hopes of destroying Tibet. Apparently the Panchen Lama takes over leadership during the time between the Dalai Lama's death and the rebirth and discovery of the next Dalai Lama. China's thinking is that when the Dalai Lama dies there won't be anyone to take leadership and without a figurehead that Tibetans will just give up and dissolve.

My wife's co-worker is Tibetan - he fled Tibet when he was a kid and grew up in a Tibetan community in exile in India. He doesn't know what happened to his parents. But China is killing and kidnapping Tibetans just because they have different beliefs than the Chinese government.

I don't think there's any reason to delete this thread...I'd certainly like to learn more.

Yea please don't delete. I am 98% oblivious as to what all this about and am very interested in learning more.

I have a feeling that we're more ignorant on this subject because it doesn't involve oil or money or a "threat to US securities". What's in it for the US if Tibet is freed?

not a fukin thing!

I think it's a shame people are using the Olympics to protest against China. Although China's human rights issues are questionable, they still deserve to have these games held just as much as anyone. Because China itself has suffered more than enough with it's history. Everyone is just so focused with "Free Tibet" that they're blinded with rage and that everything is and only is the fault of China.

Are there?Really?Was Tibet ruled by a facist dictator who tried to invade another country( Kuwait) to pillage its natural resources?Did Tibet also refuse to let UN inspectors into its military facilities to make sure they werent building WMD's and NBC weapons?Did the leader of tibet GAS women and children in their own country(Kurds)?

I think its hilarious that you comment on world affairs you know nothing about.

I dont think the war in Iraq was in the best interests of the US( the real enemy was/is in Afghanistan/Pakistan,) but to just pull out the troops and the support would cause more chaos than there allready is.If you think that if the US and UK just leave and everything will be dandy, your high.

I read about this and it's very sad. Tibet is a very peaceful community and China wants to basically abolish it.

well.. you're dealing with a major world power dealing with a huge boardering chunk of land. i think alot of people would gain if China just throws their hands up and let them go

Please never mention Iraq and WMD's in the same sentence- that was not the reason for invading- I though that was obvious to even the most loyal bush supporters now. Where are the WMDs now? 5 years later?

As with both Tibet and Iraq it was a resources grab to expand empire.

There is ethnic cleansing in tibet and they even sterilise and rape tibetian women.

Another hillarious about your pro war speal was that all the points you made about how evil Saddam was, the chinese controlled media repeat over and over to get the chinese population hating the Dali Lama, about how he is a terrorist and enemy of the state ect. Anyone outside of china will know what the Dali Lama is really like. So be aware of bias media infulencing your own opinions and objectivity.

Im not saying Saddam wasnt an evil genocidial dictator but in more people have died in the 5 years of the iraq war than in the whole 25 years he was in power.

Are you thinking that bordering counties would be able to more easily invade China from Tibet, given Tibet's policy of non-violence? Because the countries that Tibet boarders don't seem to be strong political forces that would invade China (though maybe I'm wrong).
Who (other than Tibetans) would gain, and what would they gain? I'm curious, because I really don't see what China loses (other than landmass and face) - but as I said, I don't know enough about the situation to know if there are economic reasons at play, or other such factors.

true,but china will never throw there hands up and let them go..and our government will never step in to deal with this problem,they will dissapprove of china's action,but we want get involved to much because of all the trade we do with china..it's a sad problem..

If China wants to use the Olympics as a propaganda tool they should expect people to protest. This is the first time the whole world is collectively looking at China. It would be mad not to protest at this time.

I don't understand how if you have human rights issues, that you still deserve to host the games. Lets not forget that human rights issues basically mean murder.

I hope we can keep this about Tibet...
(Maybe I was wrong, Jeff.)

Well where would the games be held? Maybe Luxemburg?

Sorry-

I have made my point, I wont mention it again.


SAM

With all due respect, I'd rather be high with my brother at home, than sober with him fighting over there. this is his third tour and he still doesn't know what the goal is or how they're going to reach it. It's all very vague. Everyone is tired and over it already from what he tells me. it's just like "fuck it. just tell me who to shoot so I can go home already"--but no one knows. people still throw rocks and shit at them--they don't feel like they're going to change anything. I wonder how much more of this war the country can take? Some people are just beyond the point of caring about it anymore. they just want to level the place and go home.

Some of the Iraqi civilians are OK with the U.S. over there, but most of them want us to leave from what he tells me. we end up killing civilians just the same trying to shoot down the enemy--and there's no way to really know who they are. My brother tells me that when the violence seems to quiet down, they just managed to kill a lot of the "dumb ones", but the brains are still out and about--unseen and unknown--always planning something.

It's never going to end and will probably just worsen over time the longer we stay over there and kill their people. I mean, if Canada did some shit to some other country and that country decided to invade the U.S., wouldn't you fight for as long as it took? This invading country says "well the U.S. is close, probably a threat, and we don't like how they've run things over time with their greed, materialism, racism, corrupt gov't etc, etc". They would have killed our families and friends trying to better our situation. They want to change things to suit their needs, but tell the rest of the world that it's for world peace and the benefit of the U.S. people. meanwhile, they're killing us trying to get the enemy and writing it off as collateral damage. I would never stop fighting. When I put the shoe on the other foot, I can't understand why things would get better over in Iraq with us there.

he's shown me pictures of some of the armored vehicles they rode around in that were attacked or blown up. To him, our presence is only giving the enemy everything they need to become more efficient. he says that they get new armor and they make better bombs. it's like damned if you do, damned if you don't. I'd rather have my brother home, than to have him lose his life over this bull.

if we pull out, I'm confident that we could handle anything from here, or maybe I'm wrong. But when you think about it, even if we "won" the war in Iraq, that won't stop terrorism. I mean, we've got terrorist alive and well in our own country (KKK).

well here's another issue. where were the protesters when China was bidding for the olympics? where were they win they won? is the whole tibet issue just the issue du jour? not like the whole "free tibet" thing is new

Are you implying every country in the world has human rights issues?

Your own government reports yearly on worst offenders around the world, on China they said that China's abuses included "extrajudicial killings, torture and coerced confessions of prisoners, and the use of forced labor."

10 countries that it deemed the worst offenders: North Korea, Myanmar, Iran, Syria, Zimbabwe, Cuba, Belarus, Uzbekistan, Eritrea and Sudan.

Jeez, it has been a long time since I've looked at a map of that area...

Tibet apparently offers a lot of natural resources for China...
http://www.china.org.cn/english/tibet-english/zirzy.htm
Link above says Lithium, Copper, Chromite are abundant, along with a bunch of other goodies, like hydro-electric power, etc. Bleed the land dry, kill the people, leave a wasteland behind---not the first time in history that process has occurred...

China is like the "Katamari Kountry", rolling up a whole bunch of stuff to become bigger and bigger...if their history was less oppressive (and they seemed less threatening, militarily speaking), we might applaud their drive and desire to grow...However, violently wiping out any opposition makes it more difficult to respect their progress...

Not too gen'd up on political whys and wherefores but it appears that China wants to retain it's communist origins but still have all the bells and whistles that go with a Western free market. The Tibetans were forced out under duress by China who have 'questionable' human rights practices at best . . . with us, as the next torch-holder not wanting to be seen politically 'rocking the Olympic' boat too much so have made nice even though most people think what's happening over there blows chunks!

It could get real interesting if/when the Olympics start and the Free Tibet situation is still in the news . . . China will have a lot of International media that won't be worrying too much about their 'restricted' broadcasting policy.