I admit that China's way of prosecuting Falun gong followers were over the top again violating human rights issues. However, Falun Gong is more of a cult rather than your everyday religion and was also under the suspicion of rebellion against the government. Their beliefs have lead countless numbers of people into believing they have a power to heal by practicing their methods and that no medical treatment would ever be required. In contrast to Tibetans, I would say Falun Gong believers are much more of a menace than what's on the surface.

yeah, but what do you think 'rebellion against the government' entails? simply voicing an opinion different to that of the government..

so is falun gong rebellious movment against the government? they have the image that all they want to do is stretch in public.

it depends who you talk to. Chinese government - yes they do. Pretty much everyone else - no they don't. I'm not aware if there are militant factions of falun gong (although just typing that made me feel a little bit ridiculous) but it's possible, and i'm sure some in china have used falun gong as a facade for other activities.

the second link i'm posting specifically relates to falun gong - notice where it talks about what he is being detained for

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/report/what-human-rights-legacy-beijing-olympics-20080401

http://www.amnesty.org/en/appeals-for-action/end-persection-falun-gong-practitioner

The leader Li Hongzhi is anti-communist. Very anti-communist in fact. When you have millions of followers willing to throw their lives away at the order of this one person that's scary.

The man believes himself to be Buddha and even changed his date of birth to match that of Buddha's. That's fucked up shit. His followers were promised a Godly ascension in their after life. Li Hongzhi's hoax-like pledges easily attracts loyal followers which in a country with millions in poverty and of a superstitious/religious culture is relatively easy.

Which is why you'll notice Falun Gong is not widely supported, consistently deemed as cult-like and shown much less empathy as compared to Tibetans. Again, the way the Chinese government persecuted them was wrong but I can certainly see why they were alarmed.

see, here's where it gets hazy for me. it's not like a christian or jew is being prosecuted, where it is generally known what they believe in. when I read this article, I don't get what falun gong is - other than that it is some sort of entity followed by millions, that China is afraid of for whatever reason, and wants to squash. maybe I should read one of his 80 pieces of literature to get a better understanding.

maybe i'd be scared too if richard simmons got 100 million people to do aerobics at the local park

To be honest, I'm surprised that you would split hairs over what divine being someone wants to worship and whether or not that means they should or shouldn't be oppressed.
I know reletively little about Zaroastironism, but I surely wouldn't wish them any harm or say that thier beliefs in a divine being was any more ludicrous than some one who believes in Allah, Christ or He Who Cannot be Named.
Persecution is persecution and wrong (obviously we make execeptions for certain elements of the more fundamental elements of all groups, but that isn't based on thier love based belief systems, but rather thier hate based actions)

well see, here's the root of the problem here. China's excuse for persecuting those who practice falun gong is that they are a cult (here in the states: cult=bad, religion=ok, band of radical anarchists=bad) that are anti-communists and has achieved a following of 100 million (i'm thinking that's alot of people)

according to amnesty international, falun gong is the following:
The Falun Gong was founded in 1992 and is described by its adherents as a spiritual practice of body, spirit and mind, based on various schools of Buddhism and traditional forms of self-cultivation which centre around a practice of meditation and Qi Gong exercises. These exercise sessions are often held by groups in public places. Before it was banned, the Falun Gong had training stations, practice sites and 'contact persons' across China, with practitioners coming from all sectors of Chinese society and almost all provinces.

both sides sound suspiciously different. am I wrong to question why? is there spin on both sides or just one?

with Tibet. did you know that China thinks they actually liberated the Tibetans? Did China disband a Feudalistic culture which consists of masters and serfs (slaves)? or is that claim just a crock of shit

before we rush to criticize, I think it's important to know what exactly you're supporting. as i said before, I have mixed feelings because I feel like both sides because each like to put their own "spin". I'm still trying to find out WHY china is doing what they're doing... certainly it is not for shits and giggles (or is it?). The Nazi's tried to wipe out the Jews because of their race... what is China's agenda with these human rights issues? i'm still trying to figure out the correct answer for that

That's the root of it really.

My assumption is that China doesn't really view these things as human rights issues as they are working on thier distorted version of Communism.
Unfortunately they have started mixing thier communist dictatorship with capitalism.
Which in turn drives them ever forward treading on whatever gets in their way. They are chasing the almighty dollar (which is swiftly becoming the almighty Euro) and if that means sending more kids off to stitch up some nikes or footballs for the world cup, and then sell them to the western world, they will happily do it.

Mao insisted he was freeing the Chinese people as well, it was a people's revolution, yet now we look at it as an oppressive dictatorship.
And to be honest, there is very little information that the chinese government says that I think is worth believing, if they told me it was raining I'd probably outside to check.
Let alone thier opinions on who is and isn't liberated.

I will always say Feeding of the 5000 is amazing!
So take that back!!!

Wow. Glad to see a lot of heart felt thinking going on here.

I've been boycotting Chinese products since the early 80's due to its occupation of Tibet. I buy my toys made there but I figure that supports cottage industries. It's not like buying factory stuff that Disney makes. I've seen the Dalai Lama speak here, I've studied meditation under Tibetan monks, and I've spent time In Dharmasala where I've protested along side the Tibetan monks for thier countries freedoms.

I am suprised that anyone believes anything the Chinese govt says. Then again I was amazed that people bought into the yellow and orange alerts that happened everyday in the states leading to Bush's re-election that mysteriously stopped right after he won. Did someone say Americans were intelligent?

What I believe is that even if the Chinese govt hadnt invaded Tibet, killed over 1.2 million Tibetans, systematically eradicated a culture, destroyed the temples, raped and tortured nuns, ousted the former theocracy wouldn't Tibet have the right to freedom simply because it wanted it? What right does a country have to rule over another nation just because it can? I am always amazed that America is so proud of its freedom that it gained, not as a formerly invaded country, but as a colony that just didnt like paying high taxes, and then we turn around and dont support the freedom of other nations...unless of course there is something in it for us.

The protests for Tibet have been going on around the world for decades. Like I said I've been involved since the early 80's. But China's Olympic media gives more people the chance to protest with high visibility. This is an opportune time for pro-Tibetans to voice thier concerns and pains. This is why some of you, that dont know a lot about international political arenas are seeing this and wondering whats going on.

China as a people and a culture has my blessing. China as a govt can go "f" itself and take the Bushes with it.

yeah, what he said.

Hong Kong is supposed to be a "Special Region", but the big C is changing and seeping into our daily lives here ever so slowly. The torch will be here in May and already there is that tension in the air. There will be a lot of protests here guaranteed and for a country that is under C the outcome of this will be very interesting.

okay when you say communist i think in essence what you mean is anti-CCP, which in no way is a pure communist regime, and especially not in '99. To be honest i'm not really arguing about how 'fucked up' falun gong is, i'm arguing that the treatment of them by the chinese government is ridiculous. By the by though, your statements sound like they're ripped straight of a CCP propaganda site. not widely supported? 70 plus million people is not widely supported?? if it wasn't widely supported, the chinese govt wouldn't have cracked down so hard. Also the statement 'When you have millions of followers willing to throw their lives away at the order of this one person that's scary' pretty much goes against the principles of their holy book, so i'd like to see where you're getting the facts for that from. ALSO: about their cult status:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong_and_the_Anti-Cult_Movement#Falun_Gong_and_the_Anti-Cult_Movement

kidclam: it will be interesting to say the least - is there a massive armed chinese force present normally? I imagine there will be for the relay..

SOS: that's really cool to hear. it's so fuckin hard to avoid MIC stuff, especially at home (new zealand) where we produce very little and have no tariffs on chinese products, so much cheap rubbish. I should really make a more concerted effort!

rhino: yeah it's good to question definitely, but i think you're almost looking at it as 50/50, as if they're both equally capable of telling the truth... unfortunately this is not true

I think you're being somewhat naive about this. All of the factories over there that make toys are pretty homogeneous.

I'd actually be tempted to agree with Roger on this, you are talking about a communist country with a fully centralised government and industry.

business isn't as centralised and state owned as you think, even in the 90s factories were being sold off to private owners... i'm not entirely sure what keeps china being a communist country, more of a straight military dictatorship in my eyes...

but yeah, a product made in china is a product made in china.. unless it's actually made in tibet

yes, but I also do not think it is 99/1 - which is why you will never see a communist or recently post communist regime to just swing open their doors to reporters (as any reporter with their own agenda can easily distort their facts, because we'll always believe that they are right). people are so eager to latch on to everything the dali lama says as truth because he looks like a nice guy who's incapable of putting his own spin. Personally, I cannot accept him as the sole know and tell all of what is Tibet since he is not a commoner and has been in exile from Tibet 50 years (meaning that for the past 50 years, all his information comes from hearsay)

also... if you free Tibet, would they even be able to feed themselves and maintain their own hospitals and education system? (I don't know the answer to that) or would they be a UNICEF poster child?

Speaking of....making an appearance here in Seattle today, The Dalai Lama, himself. Twelfth son of the Lama. The flowing robes, the grace, bald... striking.

I think you are applying western pessimism on an eastern culture.
Maybe we are applying optimism too.

The Dali Lama isn't your bog standard politician, well for starters, he isn't one at all, but he still can't be lumped in with your normal run of the mill person.

Anti-CCP to the point where Li Hongzhi is widely known within China to have pure hatred for the current communist government. First of all, these are the truth that I've come to terms with and not ripped from some 'propaganda site' as you have stated. I've lived in China long enough, heard enough and seen enough to know that Falun is definitely not what it seems on the surface.

Outside of China, many like you seem to think they're just a bunch of people promoting 'stretching exercises'? Have you seen how these people act and the disturbing depth of their faith to this so called pretentious leader? Do you think the man Li Hongzhi is just a simple man out to promote qi gong? If it were that simple then there wouldn't be such controversy over Falun Gong and more public supporters for the incidents.

Also thank you for the wiki reference but I've read enough already to know that they're very controversial and has gained debatable compassion from anyone researching this along with meeting Mr.Li himself. Some consider them as a harmless but many do consider them as a cult.

You're also misunderstanding the term 'supporter' which is my fault. 70 plus million are the actual followers. When I say supporters it means the amount of outcry from the world regarding the Falun Gong incident which is considerably less than what's happening with Tibetans.

It's funny you should mention '70 plus million'. So the Chinese government should not be distressed over a sudden upsurge of '70 plus million' cult-like status practicers with an anti-CCP leader in a mere 10 year span? These people even have their own newspapers and a television station and continuously advocating for political change.

Like I've constantly said, I don't like how they were persecuted but I can understand why they were persecuted. One thing I know is that they are definitely not politically neutral and Mr.Li has been avoiding a lot of 'questions'.

I think this is why they are cracking down on Falun Gong... it isn't so much their ideals, but the fact that the practice has spread like wildfire and it impedes on their agenda of creating "one China" (in their effort to avoid becoming another Russia (or whatever it's called now) who's power has diminished through division - which is why they want to squash falun gong, deny taiwan their independence, deny Tibet of autonomy). I don't think it's much an issue of religion, but more of a fear of the capability of assembling so many people can divide the country.

Very true. On the topic of FLG, back then Taiwan strongly supported the group. Not because they were into the FLG movement but because of their anti-CCP ideals. It was a great chance for them to further declare independence.

"These people even have their own newspapers and a television station and continuously advocating for political change.
"


Sounds like we talking about the american fundamentalists?

so kidclam, as a resident of HK, how do you feel about China's handling of HK since they regained control? i've been there before and after (although I was so young the first time... I hardly recall my trip)... but as a tourist, I don't really know. do you experience any internet censorship? can you be critical of the gov't on skullbrain or youtube w/o being worried of the consequences?