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 anyone know anything about LCD tvs? - help me pick one! 
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Post Re: anyone know anything about LCD tvs? - help me pick one!
I bought my XBR a while back, but at that time I did A LOT of research. In addition to the internet, reviews, AVS forum, etc, there is a huge Best Buy in Syracuse where I used my own hands on observations with the models they had in stock. That Best Buy had nearly every model of note.

I could tell a difference between the 1080p sets and 720p sets at 46" and above, especially if you're a little closer to the screen, not everybody sits 8 feet away from their TV. You must realize when you get into current generation TVs you will never have the latest technology, it just advances too quickly. However, you should at least meet the standard. The standard today is 1080p, I dunno why you would take a step forward, and then take a step back, by getting a 720p TV (at that size). I know people will disagree, especially when it comes to plasma sets, but this is my observation/opinion.

Also, I think some folks really exaggerate the lack of black levels in LCDs. My set is 3000:1 and the blacks seem, well, pretty dense and black! Then again, I am not an all out home theater junkie. Plasma TVs use a lot more power than a LCD, sometimes as much as three times more, so if you're at all concerned with bills and such, it's worth noting. Plasma TVs also get pretty hot, although not so much anymore, Panasonic seems to be engineering these things better and better other week.

Best recommendation is to actually see the various sets with your own eyes and just buy a rad new TV!

EDIT: Might want to hold off until Black Friday, with the looming recession and such, you might be able to score some nice gear on the cheap. Although, if I were TV-Less, that deal at 6th Ave is pretty amazing.

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Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:07 am
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INV2 wrote:
The standard today is 1080p, I dunno why you would take a step forward, and then take a step back, by getting a 720p TV (at that size).

Typically I am one of those people that wants to get the best. But when the 1080p is $700 more than the 720p, and I'm hearing from someone that works with large, high-end monitors in a professional capacity that there isn't enough of a difference in resolution, that makes me want to save my $700. Believe me, if there wasn't such a huge difference in price I'd go 1080p just because.
I see you mentioned distance from couch to TV - it sounds like you were able to notice a difference in resolution when sitting close to the TV? Our couch is probably 10'+ from our TV - in your opinion would this wipe out the difference you were able to notice?

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Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:13 am
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I see you mentioned distance from couch to TV - it sounds like you were able to notice a difference in resolution when sitting close to the TV? Our couch is probably 10'+ from our TV - in your opinion would this wipe out the difference you were able to notice?


In my opinion, at that distance it wouldn't matter.

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Post Re: anyone know anything about LCD tvs? - help me pick one!
KJB wrote:
Thanks to everybody - keep the recommendations/discussion coming. Like Skylar, I'm (hopefully) going to be in the market for a new set soon, and this is helping immeasurably. I had been pretty dead-set on an LCD, but this thread is really making me reconsider the plasma option. Didn't realize how much the price on the had gone down, and I certainly wasn't aware of the color issues.


You know, this was making me consider a plasma too, but I went out this past weekend and looked at some again and I just think that the picture quality on an LCD looks better. Much crisper and the colors are more vivid. I know the plasmas are always a little darker. Also, the ones I looked at, I thought looked a little grainy, and Missy agreed. For whatever reason we just like the way the LCDs look better.

I still haven't decided entirely yet, but I think I'm going to try to go with an LCD, but I don't think I'm going to spring for the 120Hz. We got a demo of it and all it really did was make the picture look like it almost had a 3-D effect on it, almost animated, and neither of us particularly liked it.

I'm hoping that if I settle on an LCD that I won't notice this alleged motion blur affect that happens. I've heard mixed things, but apparently a lot of newer sets have gotten so good that it's barely noticeable.


Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:25 am
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It is so difficult to make a purchase in a showroom. What looks good to you there, looks that way for a reason. I was in Sears this weekend and was checking out all of the sets they had, and watched all of them cycle through a loop of (mostly High Def) material they had playing. All of the sets had the contrast cranked way up, and the sharpness cranked up as well. FYI, Sharpness should always be set at zero, as this is an artificial enhancer to the picture. Anyhow, nearly every lcd in the house had very, very black blacks. At first I was surprised, then I went into the settings and noticed they all have a type of black boost set to on. What this does is draw every color on screen that is near to black, black. So all detail in shadows, etc. were completely lost. The sales guy of course disagreed with me at first, but upon putting the Batman Begins Blu-rayDemo disc in, he saw very clearly what I was getting at. Now Batman Begins is a very dark film, with a ton of shadows and dark nuances. Anyhow, on almost every other scene I paused the picture, and showed the sale's guy the difference between the "black Boost" setting turned on and off. It was like night and day. With the setting off you could see the fabric of the ninja outfits in the scene where he fights them off in the Himalayas, with the black boosting on, it looked like they were wearing velvet clokes. However, with contrast lowered to normal levels and black boosting turned off, the picture on the top of the line 68 inch Samsung LCD looked altogether washed out and very gray. Go with the lcd if you like Skylar, but knowing your love of film, especially films with things that go b.ump in the night, I would think very carefully about the lcd route. And with regards to power consumption, all of the newer (6th generation-9th generation) Panasonic Plasmas have "near LCD" power requirements and close to half of that of a 27 inch standard crt television, and are cool and fanless!

And as far as the 1080p versus 720P question. I would not pass up 720P if the deal is right. It all comes down to "How does the source material appear on the TV." If you are watching standard dvds, the picture will look better on a 720P set than the 1080P. In fact, DVD's look better on a 480P sdtv than they do on 720P or 1080P. The reason is the DVD source material is encoded at 640x480 (anamorphic or not) and so when you project the image on a 480P panel, you have a pixel for pixel perfect representation of the image encoded. Once you move to 720 or 1080, the pixels (or lines with respect to 1080i interlaced material) have to be doubled in the "upconversion" process. Good sets, like the Sharp Aquos or Panasonic or Pioneer Elite series do a comendable job with this so called "Up conversion" ,however the picture is in effect Digitally Zoomed in to fit the screen. Do you use digital zooming when taking digital pictures? This is the same concept. Now, the standard for High Definition OTA (over the air programming) is 720P (Fox and ABC) or 1080i (CBS and NBC). Television networks have invested billions in upgrading their equipment in the move to HD, and it will be some time before they uprgrade again. Perhaps 20 years or more. We stuck with the last NTSC standard (320 x 240i) for over 50 years. Now, if you take into account that most tv stations will be broadcasting in 480P, 720P, or 1080i, and most dvd's are in 480p, and that even Blu-ray discs that have a source encode higher than 720P (whther encoded at 720p or 1080P) have more than enough pixel information to fill the panel without the need for any picture conversion, you can surmise that your overall picture viewing quality will be better viewed at 720P than 1080P becuase your panel will be better able to project a more pixel for pixel accurate picture without as much need for upconversion.

When it comes to "35 mm shot" movie picture quality its FILM>CRT>DLP>PLASMA>LCD. It all comes down to what makes sense aesthetically and fits into your budget. Now if a movie is shot in digital, its DLP all the way- in a theatre or at home!

Now, when it comes to gaming, the artificial, non-real life looking, super bright colors of an LCD make the games look amazing. This is where Samsung shines, as they have the lowest gray to gray pixel refresh rate of any other LCD panel maker, allowing a minimal of motion blur (or ghosting) during high motion sequences. This is the reason why you see them used by the XBOX360 gaming kiosks. I love mine for just this reason.

That said, I have a 1080P LCD and Plasma, and even though I only have a couple of blu-ray discs, I'm happy I am on the cutting edge. Yeah!!


Last edited by stealthtank on Tue Nov 11, 2008 1:35 pm, edited 3 times in total.



Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:49 pm
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Post Re: anyone know anything about LCD tvs? - help me pick one!
Wow! Thanks for all that info, ST!

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Tue Nov 11, 2008 1:12 pm
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Post Re: anyone know anything about LCD tvs? - help me pick one!
stealthtank wrote:
It is so difficult to make a purchase in a showroom. What looks good to you there, looks that way for a reason. I was in Sears this weekend and was checking out all of the sets they had, and watched all of them cycle through a loop of (mostly High Def) material they had playing. All of the sets had the contrast cranked way up, and the sharpness cranked up as well. FYI, Sharpness should always be set at zero, as this is an artificial enhancer to the picture. Anyhow, nearly every lcd in the house had very, very black blacks. At first I was surprised, then I went into the settings and noticed they all have a type of black boost set to on. What this does is draw every color on screen that is near to black, black. So all detail in shadows, etc. were completely lost. The sales guy of course disagreed with me at first, but upon putting the Batman Begins Blu-rayDemo disc in, he saw very clearly what I was getting at. Now Batman Begins is a very dark film, with a ton of shadows and dark nuances. Anyhow, on almost every other scene I paused the picture, and showed the sale's guy the difference between the "black Boost" setting turned on and off. It was like night and day. With the setting off you could see the fabric of the ninja outfits in the scene where he fights them off in the Himalayas, with the black boosting on, it looked like they were wearing velvet clokes. However, with contrast lowered to normal levels and black boosting turned off, the picture on the top of the line 68 inch Samsung LCD looked altogether washed out and very gray. Go with the lcd if you like Skylar, but knowing your love of film, especially films with things that go b.ump in the night, I would think very carefully about the lcd route. And with regards to power consumption, all of the newer (6th generation-9th generation) Panasonic Plasmas have "near LCD" power requirements and close to half of that of a 27 inch standard crt television, and are cool and fanless!

And as far as the 1080p versus 720P question. I would not pass up 720P if the deal is right. It all comes down to "How does the source material appear on the TV." If you are watching standard dvds, the picture will look better on a 720P set than the 1080P. In fact, DVD's look better on a 480P sdtv than they do on 720P or 1080P. The reason is the DVD source material is encoded at 640x480 (anamorphic or not) and so when you project the image on a 480P panel, you have a pixel for pixel perfect representation of the image encoded. Once you move to 720 or 1080, the pixels (or lines with respect to 1080i interlaced material) have to be doubled in the "upconversion" process. Good sets, like the Sharp Aquos or Panasonic or Pioneer Elite series do a comendable job with this so called "Up conversion" ,however the picture is in effect Digitally Zoomed in to fit the screen. Do you use digital zooming when taking digital pictures? This is the same concept. Now, the standard for High Definition OTA (over the air programming) is 720P (Fox and ABC) or 1080i (CBS and NBC). Television networks have invested billions in upgrading their equipment in the move to HD, and it will be some time before they uprgrade again. Perhaps 20 years or more. We stuck with the last NTSC standard (320 x 240i) for over 50 years. Now, if you take into account that most tv stations will be broadcasting in 480P, 720P, or 1080i, and most dvd's are in 480p, and that even Blu-ray discs that have a source encode higher than 720P (whther encoded at 720p or 1080P) have more than enough pixel information to fill the panel without the need for any picture conversion, you can surmise that your overall picture viewing quality will be better viewed at 720P than 1080P becuase your panel will be better able to project a more pixel for pixel accurate picture without as much need for upconversion.

When it comes to "35 mm shot" movie picture quality its FILM>CRT>DLP>PLASMA>LCD. It all comes down to what makes sense aesthetically and fits into your budget. Now if a movie is shot in digital, its DLP all the way- in a theatre or at home!

Now, when it comes to gaming, the artificial, non-real life looking, super bright colors of an LCD make the games look amazing. This is where Samsung shines, as they have the lowest gray to gray pixel refresh rate of any other LCD panel maker, allowing a minimal of motion blur (or ghosting) during high motion sequences. This is the reason why you see them used by the XBOX360 gaming kiosks. I love mine for just this reason.

That said, I have a 1080P LCD and Plasma, and even though I only have a couple of blu-ray discs, I'm happy I am on the cutting edge. Yeah!!


Thanks for the advice. I do understand the concerns about watching films, as I definitely have them, but the truth of the matter is that a lot of the films I watch will NEVER look good, on any set. The source materials for them is just lacking. But honestly, for many of them, I like it that way. I think it's silly that they just recently released Faces of Death or the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre on Blu Ray! Who is going to buy those? In my opinion, those movies should only be viewed on grainy VHS tapes!

What I'm more concerned about is that the blockbuster type films I will buy on Blu Ray will look good. But I also don't think I have as high of a level of discretion as you do. Considering I just watched a Spanish werewolf movie the other night from a bootleg DVD-R that was pretty pixelated at parts and very, very dark, but I still enjoyed it, I'm sure I'll be happy with ANY HD tv. When a lot of what you watch is just garbage, even the stuff that's not super high quality still looks much much better.


Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:12 pm
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Post Re: anyone know anything about LCD tvs? - help me pick one!
Some info about Black Friday TV deals:

http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/yoon/2506


Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:48 pm
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