i have mixed emotions about the cheap sales thread.

1. of course i like buying something cheap. who wouldn't? but it is a double edged sword in the end. i don't sell stuff that often. hell, with my limited budget, it usually takes me awhile to gain up the cash to buy something in the first place, so i don't want to turn around and sell it for half of that. but when i do sell, i find myself almost being forced to sell for cheap, because whos gonna pay $50 for something that is in another sales thread just below it for $30. Usually I tend to post stuff for sale if i need cash quick, and if that stuff doesn't sell within the timeframe i need the money, i pull the sale.

2. cheap sales of these toys has kinda killed the fun factor of finding a toy for me, slightly. when i first started collecting j-vinyl, i was hunting down skullbrains mostly. and it was a great feeling when you finally tracked something down that you have been looking for. now, it's to the point were you get to choose the same figure between 5 different sales thread of $25, $30, or $40 when the piece originally sold for $65. i used to look forward to release days and was super stoked when i managed to snag something before it sold out, now i wait a few days, and if the piece sells out before i decide to buy it, i don't worry to much because i figure it'll show up in the sales thread within a month or two for cheap. this is also probably why most shops like S7 have so much inventory sitting around for so long. eventually, this could hurt these stores/companies, i'd imagine.

3. cheap sales of toys effects my trades. if someone has an item up as trade bait, and i go through their list of wants and find something i have that they want, i hesitate in even pm'ing, because i calculate the trade fairness in my head, and though both figures retailed at about the same price, their piece might re-sell at around retail while my piece sells $30 lower than what it did on retail, and vice versa....

4. outrageously low sales has given me the chance to sample toys i've been questionable on. for me, i have never seen anything in person for kaiju and j-vinyl, southern minnesota doesn't have any shops or places to see this stuff. so i rely solely on images on the computer to know if i like a toy. and there are some stuff that i think i might like, but would get a better feel of it if it were in hand. but i don't want to drop heavy amounts of cash on stuff just to test it. cheap rxh stuff worked great for me, because i was able to pick a few up cheap and get them in, and i ended up really liking them. but if it turned out that once seeing one up close that i didn't really dig it like i thought i would, i know i could try and re-sell it for close to what i paid for it, and if it just didn't sell, the loss wouldn't be that great.

I definitely *definitely* think some of the toys are that mediocre, or rather their decoration or execution or whatever is, coupled with factors like over saturation and other effects.

Lets take for example Hone Borgs, Joe had 3 for sale, for $20 a pop! Holy Shit, right? Scoop those bitches up, right? Nope, no one wants them. Why do they sit? The price was right. Well, I can only tell you why I didn't buy them.

1. I'm not fond of the Hone Borg- I don't think it looks particularly engaging, kinda boring. Its not a bad sculpt, but it doesn't grab me.
2. Those colorays suck. I think a lot of RxH's colors suck actually. Silver with splash of green, silver with a splash of gold and silver with a splash or copper... whoo color me with a splash of unimpressed.

Despite both of these reasons I think most of the Hone Borgs sold because of the RxH hype, not on their merits (But I'm sure there are a few die hard Hone Borg fans and thats cool, but I don't think they are the majority). And people inclined to puy RxH already snatched them up. Now RxH Hype is back down a bit, and the people inclined to buy them got them, and those who didn't aren't impressed by them.

3.(And this one is a big one for me)- RxH imposed that stupid, stupid, no customs "rule": You know what some of the coolest Hone Borgs are the ones Gatchabert has painted. I've seen some awesome custom Hone Borgs at I would love to have. Colors and applications that really compliment the figure and make it shine. But Mori doesn't want people selling customs (or even showing customs online if I remember correctly) so a customizer like me, or Lash or bert (or even Joe) who might've bought them to paint won't.

Same thing with the RxH minis, only I think in addtion to the hype, its a matter of over-saturation as well. Too many, too similar, too fast. Now the shine is off and they're stuck. Its like Comic books in the 90s.


----------------But, then there is the other side of the coin, people are just that broke:

Joe (sorry to use you as an example Joe, no hard feelings I hope) also had 3-4 Rangeas for sale at very nice prices, most just at retail, and I would have bought every single one of them if I had the money, but as it stands I don't. My work cut overtime months ago and that was where my "spending money" came from.


phil

I hear a lot of people saying the same thing (which I agree with) - that collections are being bought and not built. I think that's due in part to the way figures are rolled out. Because of pre-orders, random drop times, and large production runs (from a few companies, anyway), people aren't as excited as they used to be about new releases.

That, plus the excessive numbers of new versions, led to the cookie cuttering of people's collections a while ago (which has also been brought up) - ie, people's collections started looking more and more alike. The loss of excitement and dampening of interest (and increase in mediocrity from a number of companies) led to a lot of board sales. (Plus. let's face it, people are really conservative about their purchases these days.) I think that's why so many sales look identical. Again, these are points that have been raised by a few people.

So I think we're in the middle of a correction. There's still a lot of excitement about J-vinyl and some fantastic stuff coming out. But there's also a Long Tail effect at work - with so much stuff out there, and so much info about what it is and how to get it, people are focusing on niche areas, and "mainstream" companies are (to varying extents) up against the wall.

At the end of the day, this is all a good thing, since it shows we're not stuck in a static mold. Plus. this kind of airing out shows a lot of collectors have strong opinions about what's going on. Shakeups are rough, but, eventually, change is good.

Interesting points Andy. Good stuff.

Another very well said Andy, great points !

That sort of cycle can't last forever, eventually something will give and everyone, buyers, sellers, companies will have to adjust. I just hope that it (this cycle) doesn't get so big that it (the hobby) is crushed under its own weight when it collapses.



Not to derail the topic , but Whoo! Thats what makes Customs so great, my collection is unique. Something truly collectable (for me anyways)

Phil

Yeah I think something has to give when the mechanics don't match the reality. But usually adjustments come, and pretty quickly, since these guys can't afford to make economic missteps for too long without dancing in the red.

The cycle that bothers me the most is the hype cycle. It used to take a solid year before companies generated enough interest to cultivate a strong collector following. Now we're seeing figures and lines pumped up, digested, and (often) spit back out within months. Can't be good.

Normally I try to say out of these types of threads, as they're generally examples of circular logic (not an entirely bad thing). However, it's hard for me to reconcile complaints about people selling toys cheaply with the constant animosity directed toward flippers. If someone wants, or can afford to, lose money on an item, that's their business IMO. I can see the point re: a trend toward waiting for the aftermarket vs. buying new being bad for retail companies, but hey - these toys had to come from somewhere, right?
What's most interesting to me is watching the ebb and flow of what's considered the new hip, hot thing, and people scrambling to score what's considered cool. Initially, I think it's easy to get caught up in that, but as time goes on (unless you've got deep pockets and a huge house) you learn that moderation & focus need to come into play. When I started collecting, SB was the main focus, and that's where much of my tastes still lie. However, back then Secreters were going for hundreds of dollars, which I just couldn't afford. So it's nice to be able to pick them up for 2X retail now, instead of the 6X they were going for then. However, I paid large sums for items a few years ago that can be had for much less these days, and don't regret it one bit. Basically, what enters my collection stays in my collection. I sold a few things a couple of years ago due to space issues, but ended up re-buying many of them because I couldn't get used to not seeing them.
For me, the increased availability of these toys (both retail and in the aftermarket) have led to a lot less impulse buying on my part. And my overall buying has slowed to a (relative) crawl, due largely to the fact that many new toys (Bemon, RI, RxH, to name just a few) just leave me cold. And things I do like, such as Cronic, are daunting to me due simply to the overwhelming quantity of releases. To reiterate what Hellopike said, the oversaturation of the market with hundreds of infinitesimally different colorways and paint jobs is doing no one any favors.
Sorry for the rant, but IMO, if there's a problem with the hobby, I really don't believe it comes entirely from people's selling habits; their buying habits need to be examined, as well as the marketing habits of toy companies.

Buy low, sell high.

I've only ever had two small sales threads and it was to make room on my shelves. Everything I sold I had another version of somewhere in my cases. I've sold five toys in total here. Both times I've sold slightly under cost for two reasons. First taking a 5 dollar loss and throwing in shipping is no big deal. Shipping one toy is usually quite inexpensive. Second, I love to reciprocate on good deals I've had on skullbrain. I believe with coming up with a fair price to begin with and not doing the price drop at all. Price dropping kinda does smell of money desperation.

Other than that I never sell. What's the point? I'm building a collection of figures I like and are drawn to. I get giddy when I look at my collection as a whole. Losing figures kinda throws off the balance work I've done. Probably a throwback from my record collecting days.....

i hate how money value is always associated with collecting.
i started collecting j-vinyl/kaiju because i liked the craziness/originality of everything, not the value of it all.
the value should not judge the "cool factor" on any given piece.
if that be the case, a detoif filled with $100 bills would be much more adequate.
my MG5 & Boogie's costed a lot more than any 3 or 4 smoking stars put together in my collection, but my eyes tend to find the stars on more occassions.

and comics was mentioned in the value thing.
i know it is off subject, but those who collect(ed) comics for value purposes never made sense to me. if i liked the fourth or fifth printing (less rare/valuable) cover was better than the first printing cover, i would snag those (even if i could afford the first printing at the time).
and i've known comic collectors who buy tons and tons of expensive comics and never even open the front page or read them! why?! that would be like buying a gargamel/sb lucky bag and never opening it up...

I don't think anyone here is stupid...supposedly obsessive collectors do so because they possess a specific type of intelligence (that's what I've read, anyway). Lash, your custom work certainly shows this in spades

It's such a complex system that I can't begin to write about it here, and I'm certainly no authority on the subject, but anybody interested in the subject and causes should read The Return of Depression Economics by Paul Krugman. It's a pretty easy read, but may depress the hell out of you...

Also, if you think about any purchases you make as "non collectable" purchases, it may make more sense. Buy a car and it loses loads of value as soon as you drive it off the lot. This applies to nearly everything aside from gems, gold, etc... unfortunately when economic depression hits, the first things to lose value are things like collectables. Like Flipper said, "That's the Way of the World".

this is another pretty great topic. lots of interesting points of view.

i dont have much to add that hasnt been said. i dont know economics well enough to discuss how this sort of thing affects the larger 'scene' other than the figures that sell poorly, even at drastically reduced prices, will probably not continue to be produced over the long term. not all of the japanese vinyl toys are good, and whether its hype or collective opinion, some figures will float, others will sink. the harsh truth is that some toys do not strike a chord with collectors, and so people will not buy them even at low prices, because nobody wants them, or everyone who does already has it.

on a more individual level, i dont have a problem with people selling things for way cheap, really. i imagine the sellers either can afford to lose a little bit of money, are desperate for cash, or just dont really care and want the toys out of their collection for one reason or another.

I have a lot to say on this subject in general too but most of it has been said



I think that sucks balls

Whoa James, way to read too much into a 4 sentence post. Did I say it was RFSO somewhere in the post? I didn't even say I didn't have a issue with Scott doing it. The reason I exclude Scott is because he was the first person do it here in mass quantities. The issue I have is after Scott did it, suddenly everybody is selling their entire collections for $.50 cents. Which I think is whatever. I really could care less what anyone does with their toys. If people want to sell their toys on the Ultra cheap, once again.

fair enough, guilty as charged.

I don't think Scott's sales initiated cheap sales though - probably more or less due to the economy hitting the shitter. Everyone seems to be in a panic when it comes to spending $ these days. Even if people haven't lost their jobs/savings/etc it's hard to predict what will happen next.

A lot of this stuff will become the hipster's equivalent of Beanie Babies in the not too distant future. Some of the new releases have staying power, but most don't.


The reality is - 6 months, or a year or two after the toy of the moment has been released, there isn't much demand for it (there are exceptions like Bemons and Anraku). The kaiju collecting world is very small - and the companies are releasing way too many toys and too many colorways for all of them to find a permanent home. Supply of this stuff way exceeds demand in the long term.

That limited edition hype is almost always total marketing bullshit. If a toy is limited to 30 pieces, you can be damn sure the maker knows it would only sell 40 anyway. It's about creating a perception that you'll miss out if you don't act right now - without the time to think whether you're really going to want the toy a year from now.

Effective salesmen (think of infomercials that encourage you to "act now before it's too late!") well know that the fear of missing an opportunity and/or fear of regret, is one of the most powerful motivational forces in our hard wiring (plenty studies show this).

I'm not saying you're a dumb-ass for falling victim to it - we can't help ourselves - it's in our genes. I've given in to it myself many times. Even though I know it's marketing hype - I take the plunge anyway - the thing is - once I have it in my collection, 97% of the time it stays there.

Try to buy what you like and don't give into the hype. As a practical matter - with the crappy economy we can all be much more selective in what we buy - and like some of the others have said, I try to buy what I really respond to and want to keep (I also don't understand people who keep their toys in the bags - but that's a different rant). Sometimes I lose interest in a toy and get rid of it but not that often. I'd much rather trade it and get another toy in return.

A bit off topic but my 2 cents nonetheless - FWIW.

I've seen this and I am disappointed. I'm also confused why they are labeled "Official Auctions" and other auctions are not. Can someone please explain this?

They are "Official Auctions" because they come straight from the source.

Why shouldn't the "official source" be allowed to make the flipper's profit on his own toys every now and then? True, it sucks a bit from a buyer's perspective when they don't sell for retail, but what is the difference between toymaker getting market value on his product and toyseller getting that same price? Wouldn't you rather be paying the source than the middleman?

Or, is the concern here that this will be the trend of the future and more and more toymakers will go this route?

My concern is the latter.

the only thing that bugs me about the creator of a piece selling their figures at auction is the idea of trying to get as much as possible for their own work, as opposed to deciding on what the price should be and selling it at a fixed price. to me, it just feels like the wrong reasons to be making something, as in love of profit over love of the product.

a creator selling their own work at fixed 'buy-it-now' prices via an auction site seems fine, provided there is some consistency.

even though i don't collect bemons, i think this is a smart move by mr. bemon. it is a small business with a small (yet rabid) fanbase that usually pays alot of money to the middleman. i think by auctioning off a couple one-offs occasionally, he can finally make some money and still continue to sell his product as usual and not threaten future sales by raising the retail price.

In relation to selling our toys in general ....Its tough sometimes due to a lot of purchases being done online --- you see pictures (2D) and the toys/objects are 3D --- sometimes the pics don't do the toy justice and vice versa....

I wish there were more toy stores around --- just like there are variety stores

I only sell things when I receive something and it REALLY was not something I anticipated ...

I do however think trading is the better option --- esp. for us collectors...

#1 I've sold lots of toys on skullbrain

#2 I've tried to hook up people that were looking for certain toys

#3 I've bought a lot of cool toys off skullbrain

#4 I've been hooked up from people on skullbrain

No problems here. Know the buyer/seller