wow. nice. great score - congrats andy!!!
jealous a little.

This vinyl is the same yummy mellow green that the KT Ryusei was released in. How cool would an unpainted Chaos be in this color?

A few nights ago, Mori was telling us that when RxH mixes a color vinyl, it becomes their proprietary "formula" and cannot be used by other toy producers. So typically, when you see a new color vinyl, the run size is around 1-200 figures, and you are likely to see some figures released at different times in that color. Basically, in a large run size, you can switch character molds, but there is a minimum quantity of vinyl that needs to be purchased from the factory.

I believe this policy of proprietary mix and quantitiy applies to most toy creators and manufacturers.

Thanks for that info, Jason.

That's cool info right thur. It's knowledge like this that'll make you look at your toys in a different light. Thanx for the post.

If that's true then that's stupid. That's like me going and mixing a paint color, creating a painting and saying that anyone who uses that color of paint in a painting has to pay me royalties for the color.

I also have a hard time believing this. If you pay attention when a vinyl comes out you may see 3 to 4 other companies using the same color vinyl within the months before and after. For some colors I would say yes, like the smile clear green. But for the other more common colors, I just cant see it, otherwise no colors would be available.

I guess it makes perfect sense for the specialist mixes! . . . It's a minimum order scenario . . . more a manufacturing logistics deal as opposed to intellectual property infringement!

If the manufacturer only needs a small amount of vinyl but the factory has to buy a much larger quantity it's in both parties best interest to run it only for the original manufacturer (for them to then drip feed the release as and when) . . .the factory gets rid of the vinyl in one hit and other manufacturers can't use any from that batch colour.

I guess the more common colours like black, white, basic clears/GID and the primary's can be used much more frequently and won't be subject to the factory's concerns of having vinyl sat on the shelf and/or potentially being wasted, and so are more a free for all.

That's possibly why Secret Base are pushing the various coloured GID mixes they have . . . including brown!

"IF" its true? Nice. Oh, then its gotta be "stupid"? This is firsthand from the creators themselves. Do you think that Gargamel's clear with gold flake vinyl is available to say...Secret Base. Also, I said nothing about royalties. Just that in a very cool way the manufacturers acknowledge the creative impulse of the artists that come up with these combos, and honor that in an exclusive nature.



So, I'm just making this shit up? Thanks Rich.

lol, nah I'm questioning you per say. Its just hard to believe,not that its not true, just hard to believe. I have a lot to learn production wise.

This could also be the reason why we see so many proto figures that where made of certain vinyl colors, only to find out it cant be made. Case in point the slime green mongolion. It might need permission from RxH to get the go. It may have been left over vinyl and was used to make a proto.

Take it easy, logang - I'm not saying you're lying or that you're stupid. A lot of stuff gets said on these boards, and it's not always entirely true. I don't doubt that the conversation took place, but just because it did doesn't mean that it's entirely accurate. I wasn't there, I can't verify that Mori owns the rights to vinyl colors. Hence the "if it's true".
And yeah, it does seem pretty stupid (to me) to own a color mix. "Oh, I mixed 32 parts of blue to 64 parts of green - no one else can do this!" If that's the case, and that's a color I wanted to make I would just tell the company to mix 33 parts blue to 65 parts green. It's not exactly the same mix, but it'll turn out to be almost the same exact color.

I can understand the vinyl color deal a little bit. I mean, it's more of the "canvas" rather than the "paint". vinyl color is a big part of the product. And where there are a lot of similar colors, they probably all have their (even slight) differences. If I made toys in Japan, I'd like the idea of having my own toys made exclusively in colors that I decide to use/mix. Also it keeps the competition on their toes, so we (the consumers) see more new colors in soft vinyl. new colors are exciting, so in the end, it might do more good than harm.

I don't think it's the main issue is about ownership of the 'colour' . . . more simple manufacturing logistics .

Sure, you could mix 33 parts blue to 65 parts green and have your own colour . . . but you have to buy 2 tons of it for you quarter ton job . . . whatcha gonna do with all the vinyl you have left? . . . let a competitor have it to use on their toys and lose your USP or run a bunch of your own sculpts through and use 'em later down the line.

Makes sense to me!

But what's the point in keeping another company from ordering another batch of that color? Seems pointless to me.

OK, new tack . . . You are Mori with an idea for a range of toys that uses a quarter ton of tinted pink clear vinyl with green marbling but you gotta buy 2 tons of it (minimum order) . . . whatcha gonna do with the other ton and three quarters of tinted pink clear vinyl with green marbling . . . sell it to Secret Base or Gargamel and let them pump out their sculpts using your pink clear vinyl with green marbling mix, release 'em at the same time (possibly even earlier and lose the 'wow' factor) and saturate the market with the same shit . . . or use it up yourself to release more further down the line?

If SB or Gargamel wanna run with pink clear vinyl with green marbling they're gonna be stuck with the same problem! . . .

it keeps your line fresh. fresh = sales.
If you have something unique, ppl might put money in your hand.

In response to Scary Andy - if I had unused vinyl that I didn't have plans for I'd sell the vinyl to anyone that wanted it. If I was worried about wanting to release it first then I'd sell it after I released my toys.
Maybe I misunderstood what was said about owning a color. The way I read it was that a certain mix ratio is owned by the person that first came up with the mix. But the way you're (Andy) is putting it, it sounds like the BATCH is owned by the person that placed the order - not the mix ratio. That's entirely reasonable. I just don't think that someone should be denied that mix ratio just because someone else requested it first.

I think its safe to say the exact color mix isnt owned. If another company wants to do the same color they could mix up their own batch. However if the other is the case that does indeed sound a bit screwy.

The paint app on the eyes of the new MH is such an improvement...pulled me off the fence on this one! SO SO DOPE. I'm a true believer with the new head sculpt.

I'm just speculating . . . Ideally could do with Mr Flynn's thoughts and backrground knowledge on the process!

It may be that it all has to be used at the same time . . . I dunno!

The mix ratio may come into it as a secondary 'benefit' to the manufacturer but I'm sure it'll be a batch of that mix that the manufacturers buy from the factory . . . as you say there are so many permutations it would be easy to mix a virtually identical batch anyways.

wow, this thread has taken some radical turns... so funny how we ramble on about these crazy toys...!!!

and maybe they do own the "mix ratio" of color, and maybe the factory tells the other companies "oh we're mixing up some greens this month, is that something you're interested in?", and then changes it slightly.

it's entirely possible that a company owns the rights to a mix ratio, much like a patent situation.

thanks for the info jason. i always like to hear your stories of the shop, and after this week i'll have some stories of my own. debbie downers will always be around...keep bringing back stories.

It's really the same color as the KT? It looks more turquoise and less sky blue. Hmm. Oh well. Maybe that's because of the rub.

yeah it's defnitely the rub/pics that make it look different, but they're the same.

I'm starting to understand why some people don't "contribute" to the boards.



Ok, the horse is almost dead I think...but what the fuck... Everyone has an opinion, but this is the way it is here...and again its more of a creative exclusivity.

Example: If you come up with a killer idea to suspend micro sized GID skulls in clear vinyl....should everyone be able to profit off your good idea, and just put their order in with the factory? If your answer is "yes", then you won't ever "get" this arrangement, so save your cash, leave Portland behind for a week and buy a ticket to Japan. Also, please don't give me the "colors vs. suspending something in vinyl" argument is different. This is about honoring an original creative idea, even if its a color. I think its a very respectful nuance to the creators' efforts.



Um, no it isn't. Ask Kiyoka next time you talk to him. Your ceramic Matango looks awesome towering over the sofubi on display at the ThrashOut back counter.

@logang- Is this a formal arrangement, or is it more of an informal courtesy provided by the factory to each toy producer?

Formal ownership of each color mix (e.g., in a patent-type scenario) seems sort of difficult from the factory's POV as they would have to distinguish minute differences in the color mixes requested by each toy company. How much of a change is enough? On the other hand, I could see them denying orders of the "hey, can you do a marbled vinyl like the Blobpus sculpts?" variety. I guess if two companies were to somehow hit upon the same color mix, I could see them denying that as well.

Moreover, does this apply to all colors, or just special mixes (i.e., Kaji-san's marbling, RxH "slime" and the various glitter flake vinyls)? If you go to the factory and just say, "I want clear vinyl," this doesn't seem like something requiring investigation of the other toy companies' formulas. (But I will note that there are noticeable differences between the clear vinyls used by each toy company.)

I am honestly curious if there is a solid answer out there. Granted there is the language barrier and this sounds like a casual comment by Mori. Don't take offense so easily- I don't think people are questioning your truthfulness, so much as the nature of this policy. We're all interested in seeing how these toys are made; if you put out an idea like that, be prepared for questions.