I just caught some clip of Rollins ranting about dj's in a negative way and saying how he'd run into a guy with a bag of records who would say he was a dj and Rollins would reply that he was a musician. It always seemed strange to me to claim that you are part of something new and cutting edge and then deny the next youths subculture that comes after you. None the less, Rollins thinks of himself as a musician? Front man, yes. Really good at yelling lyrics in sync to the band, yes. But musician?

I wont deny a love for Black Flag having seen them pre Rollins and a good dozen or more time with the man but still...musician? That makes me laugh.

Besides, best BF songs, imo, are pre Rollins. Gimmie Gimmie Gimmie and Wasted.

Just my 3.5 cents of the day. "Black Flag. Kills Ants on contact."

What'd the Vandals say?

"Biggest sellout of all time, who couldn't sing or write a rhyme"

I like Henry, but everybody is human and we all have a hard time with this thing called perspective. In this case he smacks of hypocrisy.

Not agreeing that Rollins should be considered a musician, but I do think that way too many folks throw around the term dj.

Good point. Dj could be as openly used as musician. The good, the bad, and the ugly.

Music, Shmusic. Appreciate him as Guard Henry on Lost Highway.

I pefer pre-Rollins Black Flag anyday. Nothing against him, though.

I also hate when "musicians" rip any sort of electronic music, even DJing. I like to argue, when you break down what they're playing on guitar/piano whatever, it's the same song someone else has done. The notes in succession to one another, it's almost all been done, in every tempo too. It's not that original either. The originality of any music doesn't so much come from the music being played vs. what counter melodies and rhythms you match them up with, and then lyrical content if you have lyrics. Even after ALL of that, it's still probably been done before. But not by you (said 'musician') and so that's where the real originality comes from. Is your personal stamp. Even then, who cares? OK hahahah, I'll end it.

Giorgio Moroder 4 LIFE.

I won't even get into the "DJ as musician" argument (a tenuous one, at best) but as far as Rollins goes: Dickweed. Always has been, always will be.

However...

Why the F some people think DJs are celebrities is beyond me. I think musicians and lead singers are (usually) far more talented.

Any fool can operate a turn table at a party in the corner.

Now, someone give me an example and make me shut up. I don't really know anything about Phat Boy Slim but I remember hearing something about him being a DJ beforehand. Then, I'd say producing/mixing/song making take a lot more skill than being a DJ.

If Rick Rubin was playing some records at a party, would you call him a DJ?

Some (few) djs are musicians, most aren't.
Any run ins I had with rollins were more than pleasent and nice.
And his acting in lost highway is awesome.

What about Heat!!!

Burn down the disco
Hang the blessed DJ
Because the music that they constantly play
IT SAYS NOTHING TO ME ABOUT MY LIFE
Hang the blessed DJ
Because the music they constantly play


On the Leeds side-streets that you slip down
Provincial towns you jog 'round
Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ
Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ
HANG THE DJ, HANG THE DJ, HANG THE DJ
HANG THE DJ, HANG THE DJ
HANG THE DJ, HANG THE DJ
Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ
HANG THE DJ, HANG THE DJ
HANG THE DJ, HANG THE DJ
Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ
HANG THE DJ, HANG THE DJ
HANG THE DJ, HANG THE DJ
Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ, Hang the DJ
HANG THE DJ

How about this for an example :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yk9B7TSJVwc

Keep watch for around min. 1:26 when he goes drum and bass. Remember he is creating the beat pattern with 2 different records.

You guys have heard DJ Z-Trip right? He mixes old music and makes it sound new b/c it was so worn out originally. I digged it. For a week or two. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IW8xVCbf5w

I saw Hank on the End Of Silence tour with Tool opening up in a small club in H-town. Fucking bad ass. But I was young, full of testosterone and envied Hanks tattoos. Have not listened to his music in years and Ginn's guitar solos are so terrible I can barely sit through it.

This argument could go on for days. Personally, I see Rollins as a "vocalist". But by definition, a musician is a composer, conductor, or performer of music. Maybe he believes that using his voice in the fashion of spoken diatribes and then barking his way through songs is his way of being a musician. He's also produced and mixed for the band The Mark of Cain. .

As far as DJ's, I really only see two types. There's the ones that mix records at parties and then others that take records and make something completely their own. In the case of DJ Z-Trip, I consider his style just a mashup. He'd be great at a party. I heard his records but tired of them quickly. Great records for entertaining a party though. An example of someone who I believe can create something entirely new would be DJ Shadow. His debut studio album is created entirely from samples which includes jazz, hip-hop, psychedelia, percussion tracks, television shows; basically whatever he can get his hands on. This guy can create something entirely new from the records that he incorporates into his mixes which in turn could be called an entirely new song.

Here's a song off his debut
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ojsb7MAnLmE

Another DJ that I really like is DJ Krush. He's most known for his atmospheric productions that incorporate sounds from nature and jazz and soul.

I assume you saw the documentary Scratch, both DJs are featured in it. Shadows 1st album is a classic for sure, something I can listen to for just about any occasion, when I paint, when I workout, when friends are over.

Yeah, Scratch is a great documentary. I highly recommend watching it if you're interested in learning the history of hip-hop or DJing.

You can watch it here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 5841814301

I have to agree, Shadow's 1st album is a classic and I can listen to it at just about any time. His second one, The Private Press, was also good but didn't hold the caliber of the 1st. His 3rd however, The Outsider, was kind of a letdown. He delved way too much into the hyphy hip-hop movement.

I felt the same way, nothing has topped his first and probably will never. Reason being that it was made in the mid nineties when hip hop had a soul. Its hard to get back to that place or even find an audience now of days with people listening and accepting garbage as good music.

Agreed on Shadow - I think he's pretty much the epitome of DJ as musician. Endtroducing is an amazing album. Private Press is okay, but my least favorite. I'm one of the few that actually like The Outsider - while completely different from his early work with Solesides, it was fun to see him take his music back to hip-hop - my only complaint is there wasn't any cohesion on the album. I really liked the hyphy tracks, and the opening was great. The other tracks...some were good, but felt more like Private Press material.
I saw Shadow and Cut Chemist last summer on the "Hard Sell" tour. Normally I think it's pointless to go see a DJ (unless you like to dance, which I don't) - but that was one hell of a show!

if we're talking hip hop with soul, i still think guru's jazzmatazz is way overlooked.

you can usually find those cd's in the bargain bins and they contain some of my favorite music from that time period.

I like my Guru in Gangstarr and thats it. What I mean by soul is as in a music that has life and feelings, not exactly " soul " music.

The best "soul" music samples in hip hop where made by Ghostface IMO, the album Irionman took soul samples and made them grungy.

we have two very different ideas of what "soul" is in music.

have you listened to the lyrics for the jazzmatazz stuff? it deals with life, in a soulful way.

ah well to each their own.

We have the same views I'm just talking about the beats not the lyrics right now.

While it was fun to see Shadow embark on going back to hip-hop, I think it could have been better. Especially if he went back to the days of yore when hip-hop was good and had a meaning. Hyphy is already dead. "The Outsider" was definitely his least cohesive record. Its total incoherence is actually what keeps me interested in the album. Standout tracks were "This Time", "Seein Thangs", "Backstage Girl", " The Tiger", "Erase You" and "Skullfuckery". The hyphy ones with Keak Da Sneak, Nump, & The Team I generally skip over. I think I would had liked them better if they were left as instrumentals.

I never got to see Shadow and Cut Chemist perform live together but I did pick up The Hard Sell on DVD and it was great to see them work their magic. I did see Cut Chemist with Lyrics Born at the Independent. His finale was videotaping people in the audience and then hooking it up into his gear and then remixing the video with music. It was pretty bad ass!

Still, I'd like to see Henry behind a turntable!

z trip is great. i always listen to his live in LA set, never gets old. his uneasy listening set with dj p is legendary. he mixes so many different genres of music and he makes it work, not many DJs can pull that off. definitely recommend giving that a listen and watching scratch.
http://www.djztrip.com/downloads.html you can download both the live in la and uneasy listening for free here. the uneasy listening is split into 6 parts, but i have one long mp3 if you guys dig it.

LASH- i feel the same way on guru. you know my steez is one of my favorite tracks.

Part of the problem with this rant is there are all kinds of DJs. A few years ago, I met a friend at a bar where he said a co-worker was the DJ that night. His "DJ skills" involved flipping through a CD portfolio and popping tunes into a CD player. Not a DJ CD player setup where you can fade or mimic scratching: It was just this ham sandwich of a guy popping in CDs at a bar. Whoop-de-do. Then there are these Richie Rich kids who do have all the gear (because daddy paid for it) and they still do the same thing... But with vinyl... Not doing much of anything...

Let's not even talk about iPod DJs. We know they exist and they had better know they are laughable.

But then there are turntablists who do something different entirely. They are the classic DJs they deserve respect because they are artists. Z-Trip is one. Q-Bert is another. Mix Master Mike, Jam Master Jay and Grandmaster Flash of course who really hacked and created this whole culture.

So Rollins would have a point if he acknowledged the differences. Especially since the DC hardcore world he came out of had respect for lots of the 1980s hip hop artists.

But taken as it is with his bone-headed bluntness, he comes off like all these closeted racists I grew up with who would get into extended rants about how hip hop is not this, and how playing guitar is harder and blah, blah, blah... I like old Black Flag, but Rollins... I hope he realizes he lucked out in his post-Black Flag career as a "spoken word artist" and "actor". He's not that good at either of those and has no business telling anyone what they "really" are based on that.