Did anyone watch this last night on BBC4?

It was really interesting.Lots of Bwana Bob Conge Koji Zags Godzilla etc

"The stuffy gloom of the auction world is pierced by one bright star - Swiss aristocrat and art entrepreneur Simon de Pury. He has revitalised ancient auction house Phillips and turned the salesroom into a party venue, attracting a hip crowd to sales of the hottest contemporary artworks so new they are called Wet Art. But then the biggest boom in art history turns to bust. Can the man they call the salesroom Mick Jagger find even more cutting edge art to keep his house afloat?"

Toy Art clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZx8Wajvos8

You can watch it for the next 5 days in the UK for free:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00r5ylr

Cheers for the heads up!

that proto skull brain was nice

Wish I could watch it. Not available in my area.

Is that really the infamous Steve Agin?

HOT FLASH! OUTER SPACE, SCI-FI, ULTRAMAN, GODZILLA, AND ALL MONSTER MANGA, TV AND MOVIE FANS AND VINYL KAIJU COLLECTORS, CHECK THIS OUT! THE GREAT JAPANESE Co. TOYGRAPH HAS MADE THE MOST AMAZING, AWESOMELY OUTRAGEOUS 5 INCH "SPACE TROOPER-VX" AND HE'S ONE OF THE COOLEST ORIGINAL VILLAINS EVER OUT FROM THESE VINYL WIZARDS! AND IT LOOKS FREAKIN' AMAZING! IT IS SO ADVANCED IN THE ART OF JAPANESE MONSTER VINYLS YOU'VE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE IT. FIRST, IT HAS A REAL-LOOKING space suit AND A SKULL MONSTER ALIEN HEAD INSIDE A CLEAR DOME SPACE HELMET CARRYING A SPACE RIFLE THAT REALLY BRINGs THIS SPACE HORROR-SHOW DEMON TO LIFE! AND! he comes to you sealed, MINT in a cool HEADER BAG! I ONLY HAVE O-N-E LEFT!!! IN METALLIC RED AND BLACK.

THESE ARE EVEN RARER THAN USUAL!!!!!! THIS IS A VERY SPECIAL FIGURE, A MASTERPIECE. THIS BEAUTIFULLY & METICULOUSLY DETAILED AND SCULPTED VINYL IS ONE OF THE BEST JAPANESE VINYLS EVER MADE!!!! THIS SHORT RUN JEWEL IS VERY RARE AND THIS WILL LIKELY BE YOUR ONLY CHANCE TO GET ONE. THIS IS A COLLECTION NECESSITY AND WILL OCCUPY A SPECIAL PLACE IN ANY VINYL KAIJU COLLECTION. YIPPEEE! AND, I HAVE OTHER AWESOME MONSTER VINYLS UP ON AUCTION RIGHT NOW AS WELL. (I HAVE MANY OTHER VINYLS THAT ARE AWESOME, UP ON AUCTION TOO - LOOK FOR THEM - if you win others you can combine them for shipping and save $ !). OFFERED HERE AT A REALLY LOW OPENING BID! AND WITH NO RESERVE!!!!!!! WINNER PAYS SHIPPING, HANDLING AND INSURANCE & WITH PAYPAL or, you can email me - BEFORE BIDDING! - for other payment method options. THESE RULES ARE NOT FLEXIBLE! IF YOU HAVE ANY PROBLEM ABIDING BY THEM PLEASE!!! DO NOT BID!!!ABSOLUTELY NO PERSONAL CHECKS! WINNER MUST EMAIL WITHIN 24 HOURS OF WIN NOTIFICATION AND SEND PAYMENT WITHIN 3 DAYS. THANKS AND GOOD LUCK TO ALL!

a couple workmates mentioned this to me on friday...

wouldn't have seen it anyway,,i am too ghetto to get BBC4 (actually i watch so little TV that the five terrestrial channels do me fine,,no freeview cable here)

thanks for the iPlayer link,,will check it out...

That's him. Sometimes he talks in all caps, it just takes a little prompting.

lol...i love steve but you have to commit at least an hour when you speak with him...

sucks that us yankees cant view the entire show.

I only spotted this due to it appearing on Harry Hills show!

You can still see the exhibition catalogue for the first auction that corresponded to the toys in the documentary at http://www.phillips.com/auctions/auction/UK000308. Interesting to see which pieces sold and how they compare to their estimates. From a little bit of searching in their site I can find two Carlos Enriquez-Gonzalez figures that were sold as recently as 2010. Does anyone know of any other efforts to bring 'toy art' significantly into the established fine art circuit?

Fortunately, that effort seems to have petered out.

Never had anything but good transactions with Steve Agin but honestly ... he spent a year working on "coining" the phrase "toy art?"

I know theres been some toys in sorta "pop culture" art auctions here in the US. Some sucklord for sure. I cant remember the auction house but i think its in Philly... ill try and look it up when im on a real computer...

tried to get the bbc to dig this out for iplayer but my efforts failed, can't find this to watch anywhere despite a lot of searching. if anyone knows please share. cheers

I really dont see any of that as fine art or 'art toys' for that matter.

Just a bunch of people that illustrated and designed, and for a moment decided that this new medium could be explored.

Another preview..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHfpLBcYk4M

If I remember correctly, once the full size vagina monster reaches auction later in the programme it ends up being bought by Jeff Koons (!!?) Can't say for sure though, would be great if there was a working link to the full documentary somewhere.

Sometimes I think a jurried "fine art" presence would be very beneficial. Maybe it would scare off some of the people just churning out shitty figures, because they can afford silicon, It's actually kind of crushing, when you see maybe a dozen or 15 artists or companies, who do exceptional work. And then the medium that they work so hard to elevate and make something of quality, is just brought down and polluted because there are 200 other guys out there who just want to make a toy, but shouldn't.

Truth, Carlos Enriquez-Gonzalez will actually have his molds destroyed after 50 or 100 figures. How is that not limited fine art?

I don't want to open up the art/toy debate again, I don't think Skullbrain is the right place for it. Just be glad your favorite artists are spending thousands and thousands of dollars to produce their hard work in vinyl and make it available at a very reasonable price and in edition numbers that allow the figure to be distributed to a majority of the collector market. They could say fuck it and produce their sculpture in fiberglass or bronze, and charge thousands because it's an accepted fine arts medium.

^^^^^^
Amen Joe. I mean most of this stuff is pop-art anyhow. Pop-art CAN be fine art too. Or in can just be crap. Like all art the spectrum of quality is endless, filled with a minefield of subjective + objective opinions, and manipulated by the 'tastemakers'.

Many products/'things' begin life in one context (utilitarian for example), and then are later 'judged' to be 'art' by the tastemakers. Sofubi is/can be an example; AND to bring in another Japanese example - 'Netsuke'.

Example of Netsuke's utilitarian use, below:



Example of a Netsuke, below:



...quote from Wiki below on 'netsuke':

"Netsuke (根付?) are miniature sculptures that were invented in 17th-century Japan to serve a practical function (the two Japanese characters ne+tsuke mean "root" and "to attach"). Traditional Japanese garments—robes called kosode and kimono—had no pockets; however, men who wore them needed a place to store their personal belongings, such as pipes, tobacco, money, seals, or medicines.

Their solution was to place such objects in containers (called sagemono) hung by cords from the robes' sashes (obi). The containers may have been pouches or small woven baskets, but the most popular were beautifully crafted boxes (inrō), which were held shut by ojime, which were sliding beads on cords. Whatever the form of the container, the fastener that secured the cord at the top of the sash was a carved, button-like toggle called a netsuke.

Netsuke, like the inrō and ojime, evolved over time from being strictly utilitarian into objects of great artistic merit and an expression of extraordinary craftsmanship. Such objects have a long history reflecting the important aspects of Japanese folklore and life. Netsuke production was most popular during the Edo period in Japan, around 1615-1868. Today, the art lives on, and some modern works can command high prices in the UK, Europe, the USA, Japan and elsewhere. Inexpensive yet faithful reproductions are available in museums and souvenir shops."

Now 'netsuke' IS definately 'art'. NOT because of what is is inherently, but purely because 'tastemakers' have judged it so. The same can be said, and can be argued to be slowly occuring, with Sofubi and Kaiju.

Thoughts? Hate?

P.S - f*&k the guys who made netsuke could scuplt/carve!

Yeah, no. You two are a bit off with that whole 'this is really art, you guys' take on this.

You forget that they are toys and there are things that art brings about when being crated that this doesnt. Wanna argue for 'lowbrow'? Good luck with that. Utilitarian? really? Nothing reeks of comfort and luxury more than a piece of plastic, made in limited runs and charged at a great profit margin. that is, these toys.

It doesn't really matter, if you enjoy it and appreciate it, then that is that. To think otherwise would be a disservice to the hobby and yourselves as collectors.

Why do you keep fighting with the fact that these are toys? Nothing more.

evom said it best *

(retracted cause this argument has happened a million times and who gives a shit.)

In a Japanese context I think things take on a bit of a different light. Takashi Murakami is the prime example in my opinion. The most common complaint about artists like him or Jeff Koons is that they produce their work using industrialised production methods. This has been a moot point since Warhol but in Murakami's case he's just working in the artisanal tradition that's been practiced in his home country for centuries.

In the West I think the equivalent argument is over the supposed split between arts and craft, whatever that means. Personally I find the discussion fascinating despite the fact it's ultimately going to be inconclusive in most aspects because it's interesting to see how the values of collectors translate to the fine art establishment.

There are certain Skullbrain mantras, that just get chanted everytime this comes up.

Like I said, it doesn't belong on Skullbrain.

Did someone say "pissing contest"..?