RACIST!

Dude, I'm not even getting dragged into some sort of internet slap-fight now. Up until now it's just been a discussion of the toy, racist vs. not. I'll just give snotty answers though and sit back and not actually address the subject in a straight forward and honest way from now on. Whatever though, I don't feel bad for anything I do here, I have no reason too.

Fuck it, it's racist. I hope buying them kills a bunch of whales and forests too somehow just to offend more people.

I think calling these toys racist is maybe taking things out of context. That's like saying ninja turtles are racist. It's more of an appreciation for multiculturalism. A depiction of a native culture does not mean they're being mocked as buffoons or brainless savages. Grown-up toys are still just fun toys with no intent.

Anyone's thoughts on the towering Storm Trooper Jumbo? Does it evoke the idea of "white supremacy"?

to say that some of the toys that have been mentioned don't play on already existing racially charged stereotypes seems silly.. to say that due to that notion the toy, the creator, or the buyer is racist is a bit of a stretch.. who is to say that joel, shigeru, and whoever else aren't playing up those stereotypes as a means of pointing out the idiocy and detrimental nature of them in the first place? In my mind, these toys are able to make that point, all the while giving us a chuckle..

We all are able to see these toys in the context from which they come, mainly the minds of skilled artists from around the globe. To write them off merely as being racist seems like an oversimplification of what is actually going on. the layers of meaning that unfold illustrate in my mind how these are so much more. toy. japan. art. racial stereotypes... they all seem to add to the meaning behind what is created and in my mind, make them far more than simply a physical relic espousing racist propaganda

oh, and great toy, joel! i love this dude,, really wanted to score one, but didn't have the funds when they were available. cheers on such a cool and controversial release.. thats all you wanted anyway, isn't it..

Jeff, dude, relax. No one is internet slap-fighting here. I have VASTLY better things to do with my life than trying to enhance my internet ego. That said, I'm a pretty dark brown dude...and I'm not about to "be good" and NOT bring up something that makes me uncomfortable.

Like...did you think I was being sarcastic when I said sorry you feel bad?? No, I'm actually sad that this discussion has had some negative emotional effect on you. Whether I'm right or wrong or otherwise, I need to have this conversation because, like I said, I feel uncomfortable in a place I come to to chill and talk about toys. I'm not trying to shit on you or anyone (well, I'm certainly calling into question the judgement of these toy makers).

This is the definition of projecting, dude. I've been doing my damndest--despite a bunch of people telling me I'm wrong--to be clear and honest about what I think regarding a topic that's hard on most people.

And besides, like Mark K said earlier, I think this discussion is a LOT more interesting and useful than the majority of "+1" posts that're flooding the board these days...



As long as I get to be moderator!

Really? Did sound a lot like that.

+1!





I don't know about that. You may be too brown dude.
You know I love you right?

So... what about the pink Bobongo?

How are you so certain that there is a lack of respect for, and ignorance of, any culture portrayed in this toy? Are you close with the manufacturer and know them to be the kind of person that uses racial bigotry to market their toys to racist and ignorant Westerners?

Have you considered that they just enjoy the native/headhunter look because it is kind dark and strangely fun? Maybe they have a strong appreciation for African art and wanted to somehow work that into their toy. Keeping it kaiju, perhaps they made it a hybrid of their best attempt at African art and a kaiju monster. Maybe there is no conscious cultural influence at all.

Seems like you are making a lot of assumptions about the makers values and intent without knowing the truth. I just see them as fun toys. I, myself, don't own any of the toys in question. I don't really like the Sarumon sculpt. I would love to own a Gorilla or a Bobongo.
Especially the Bobongo, to me, is a fun-silly sculpt with a bit of a deformed dark side. I buy fun toys that appeal to me. I don't read too much into them.

melek_taus, I haven't seen the pink Bobongo, but I doubt it would make a huge difference to me. But I think you're hitting on my point. Again, it's all about the intent. Honestly, I have no clue what's on the creator's mind...obviously. All I know is that I see this object at face value...and it looks pretty fucked up. Like Jeff was saying earlier, if the creator was trying to make some political statement against racism by mocking the stereotype, itself, well, that's certainly one thing. But I have no way of telling that...just like I have no way of telling if he's actually being racist, himself.

Not knowing the actual intent is tough. It's not like Zollmen's a known outspoken anti-racism activist or some shit like that. You can say "how can you be sure the creator's being racist". Well, again, taking the thing purely at face value, I think it's objectively easier to ask "are you so sure he's not being racist?"

But here's the other thing: we already have a history of "hype" with many these "boutique" designer toys. NagNagNag comes out of nowhere with a mangled humanoid monster-thing...that says "Fuck the USA" on his foot. NO ONE knows the intent. All this hype immediately ignites around the toy as people scramble to make sense of it. It's a brilliant marketing ploy. But it's pretty disingenuous. I mean, there's no substance or otherwise sincerity to "Fuck the USA"...it's just there to push people's buttons and sell the toy.

So, back to Bobongo, we have this precedence for hype based on controversy. So even if I can't tell what the maker's true intent is, I'm comfortable with playing the odds. Hype based on--in this case--racist imagery.

Well, I really don't think there is any denying that the black Bobongo with red lips is clearly based on an early offensive stereotype. Whether the makers of the toy felt they were creating something that would raise some controversy or are racist is anybody's guess. I do think we are kidding ourselves to think it wouldn't offend anyone.

Maybe we tend to be too sheltered for our own good here sometimes.
Remember when American Greetings misprinted Spongebob?
There was no ill intent, it was an accident, regardless, the imagery offended quite a few people.

hah thats awesome! i love when shit gets labeled as racist when either A) the intention behind the piece is unknown or B) its a clear fuck-up, as is the case with this spongebob image.. clearly the intention was not to be racist, but people are so quick to jump down the creator's throat, and just as quick to be up in arms over perceived racism. either way, its hilarious! hellooooo, new avatar!

Originally I told myself not to jump into this or impose context on anyone's particular perceptions, but I guess at some point it's all about exactly that ... perceptions and context. So I guess I will rant just a little.

I have to agree with sanjeev about that particular Bobongo. It's obviously racist in the canonical iconographic mode that mocks African people with which we're all familiar (or at least I assume so.) Anyone who can't see that needs a bit of a visual history lesson ... I'd recommend the montage at the end of Spike Lee's movie "Bamboozled" for starters. That montage doesn't address the Japanese angle but it's all pretty similar stuff. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't see that figure as being some sort of ironic or post-PC comment on racist imagery ... it's just there, you know? So it doesn't work for me. I'm reminded that some felt that the Anraku Glutamines were a little too evocative of old "pickaninny" images ... your mileage may vary. That one doesn't bother me because I'm not convinced that it was intended to evoke minstrelsy and such. I'm not going to get into slighting Japan on this topic because hopefully there's already knowledge in this group about all that, and because as an American I'm hardly in a position to point fingers. Suffice to say that to be in denial isn't 100% realistic.

However having said that, if it doesn't offend you, or if you think it's racist but wouldn't mind displaying it with the understanding that it is what it is, why not? I'm friends with an African American artist (Arnold J. Kemp) whose work deals with Af-Am identity, and like Lee, he collects racist items from the past like Aunt Jemima cookie jars and the like. That definitely doesn't make him some sort of self-loathing racist, just someone who's very hip to the history of this sort of imagery and its social context. Also know another artist (Travis Sommerville) whose work deals very intensely and directly with racist and civil rights history imagery, and while he's as far from a racist as a person can be, his work is sometimes misunderstood as being "racist" for merely invoking those old images. Again, perceptions and context...

I'd like to think that it's possible to discuss, debate, and disagree on this topic without undue rancor, posturing, or name-calling. I'm sure it is when cooler heads prevail.

Although I'm assuming that Jay was just kidding about the Stormtrooper, it's well known that the Empire-associated costume designs for the first Star Wars movie were inspired in part by Nazi regalia. The bad guys. So if the trooper does evoke Aryan supremacy for someone, they're not necessarily being oversensitive, more likely historically informed.

Yup. ^^^
What happened to innocent until proven guilty?
I just think that most of us have moved so far past the racism of our history that we should be more willing to keep an open mind now. Plus, life is too short to be all worked up over a possibly questionable toy.
At least in my experience, racists are not looked upon very kindly and are a bit of a joke. So if there is racist intent behind any toy, it's only a bad joke that reflects poorly on the creator.

I wonder if Garuru should be deemed racist too...

...now with mixed parts. dude has no shame.

RACIST!!!!

hahahahaha

That chunk of bemon wanna be garbage is the lamest "toy" i have ever seen.

What is that giant rock thing? I'm tempted to buy a Killer J Lucky Bag just to see if I snag one. I would if I could...

its crap. better keep on buying dummies then.

if u arent only interested in latest hyped up shit check this,
might find some interesting stuff for reasonable prices:

http://ekizo.mandarake.co.jp/shop/en/ca ... -toys.html

i probably never would've found this shop without you're help so thanks a ton - already making a wish-list haha. Still think the rock monster has potential though.

...more info to come!

http://www.auxpeer.com | http://www.v-kingz.com

I want to go to Paris so bad.