I'm curious to know what you guys think about the following situation:

You mail a rather expensive toy to a buyer, Priority, with the tracking and insurance that come with Priority. Delivery confirmation shows the package delivered to your buyer's porch. You are positive you sent to the right address, as you printed out the label. But buyer says package never showed up.

What do you do?

I know Paypal protects sellers if they mail to the address provided and tracking shows delivery. And the USPS, of course, considers the package delivered so they will not honor any insurance claims for a lost package.

But you have a buyer who swears they did not get it. What is the fair thing to do in this case? You don't know the buyer and if what he says is true, but it may be true. The package could have been swiped off the porch or mis-delivered to the wrong address. You don't know. It seems unfair for the buyer to receive no toy, but it is also unfair for you to have to refund for a toy you sent correctly and that you are are also not getting back.

Do you trust the buyer (whom you have never dealt with before and simply don't know) and refund half? All of it? None of it? Offer another toy? What would you do?

When you guys send - do you add signature confirmation, even if your buyer does not want it? (I have had people get very annoyed with me in the past for adding signature confirmation, because then the USPS will not leave it and they have to go to the post office to pick it up.) Safer, but a hassle. And, of course, it rarely is necessary, though I sure wish I had added it in this case.

Cindy

You have all the evidence that says you did everything correctly.
If this isnt a friend or someone you have past experience with you have no obligation to do anything for them. Id say they are s.o.l.
Its not your fault the package was stolen off of their porch.

Situations like this are when signature confirmation really becomes clutch.

IMO you have no responsibility for compensation if you sent the item and have proof of such and the buyer can see this. There doesn't seem to be any ambiguity on your end that you did everything a reasonable seller would do. However I do know for items sold for $250+ (via Paypal) signature confirmations is required to protect yourself as a seller, simple tracking won't cut it if the buyer contests. Why they do this for only expensive items, when the seller should theoretically have the same involvement regardless of price is beyond me. I have however heard of people getting screwed on this assuming shipping with tracking was enough since that is how they usually ship.

If the seller believes you shipped the item, they would be an asshole to try to get something out of you as far as I am concerned. However according to Papal it may be within their rights. I know personally that if anything was ever shipped to me that didn't show, someone had proof and I know them to have dealt with others in the community I would never hold them accountable for the mistake of the USPS or actions of a thief.

Signature confirmation can be great, but it can also muddy the waters a bit too. It would be absolutely protective if the ONLY person who could accept the package was the one who it was addressed to. But they will let anyone at the residence sign for it, and often the signatures are scrawls that are completely unreadable.

Plus, if you have a buyer intent on fraud, they can intentionally sign a different name if the mail carrier does not know them. Then they can say, "whoa, that wasn't me!"

In this case, the item was less than $250, though close to it.

I should add, too, that at this point the buyer is not demanding anything. If it was mis-delivered, I am hoping it might still turn up, as people who receive mis-delivered packages are sometimes lazy and will sit on them for a few days or even longer, until they get motivated enough to drop them back at the post office or take them to the correct address themselves.

Anyway, buyer has not yet made any demands, but I do feel terrible he did not get it (if he, in fact, did not) and so I wonder about the right course of action.

And this is the second time this has happened to me (though I do send A LOT of packages). In the first case, I offered the buyer a huge discount on another toy, so it was kind of like I gave him a half-refund. Even though I was not in danger of losing any claim, it felt like the right thing to do. But now, again, I just feel like I hate to lose money on something that was not my fault.

Whew glad to hear you were below the $250. I didn't learn about that rule until an item I sold on Ebay for over $250 was purchased by someone who looked like they might be sketchy after I already shipped with tracking only. Was so worried until they left + feedback I was going to be scammed.

Anyway still I only ever do sig confirmation if it is requested or the item is $250+

out of curiosity, what state does the buyer live in ?

Cerritos, California

You want to hear another little-known paypal surprise:

Their seller protection policy does NOT cover you if someone files their claim through ebay instead of Paypal itself.

Here is how I found THAT out - I sold a pricey item to a buyer in Russia. I generally always mail Priority International because it is the only way to get tracking included in the cost. But this buyer insisted on First Class. Not just to save money - she insisted that Priority was more likely to get stuck in customs and she wanted First Class. Well, I did not completely trust her, so even though I mailed First-Class (which does not include tracking), I paid the extra $13 for adding tracking to First-Class. I thought I was safe with that.

Now First-Class International can take a month or more, particularly with certain countries, like Russia. I told the buyer that and she said she was okay with it. She kept saying Priority would take even longer because it was sure to get stuck in customs. She said she had received many packages and the Priority ones always got stuck for many weeks in customs.

So I had tracking, but after 30 days it was still not there. The buyer immediately filed an ebay claim, the very first day she could. (I am convinced this was her little scam - demanding slow shipping and then filing a claim.) I told the ebay representative that this was an international package, sent First-Class at the buyers request, and they can take a good 6-8 weeks, esp. to Russia. I told him I was sure it would be there soon, but he refused to wait and refunded her immediately. He said the tracking was not showing "movement," but we all know that is typical - the post office does not scan every step of the way like UPS or DHL. Not here, or in Russia.

Two days later, on day 32, it showed as delivered to her. But, of course, it was too late. I had already had the money taken away, despite the fact that four weeks for a package to Russia was not out of the ordinary.

But I was not worried...I thought Paypal would help me. I had done everything correctly, mailed to the provided address, had tracking to prove delivery. As a seller, I would be protected. WRONG. They would not even look at it. This was when I learned this little-known rule: ANY claim decided through ebay invalidates your rights to redress on Paypal. The paypal rep basically told me that the seller protection policy was voided by any ebay decision.

Another reason I hate paypal - their habit of hiding these little surprise rules in the small print.

That is what postal insurance is for. How you folks would ship anything valuable without it is beyond me. Even if I can't get the seller to pay for it or work it into the cost, I would pay it out of my own pocket to ensure I do not lose on the transaction, regardless of the outcome.

If you shipped by priority mail, you automatically get a certain level of insurance. So if you are forced to pay out, at least you can get some of your money back. I am pretty sure the insurance always goes to the sender.

Well there is your first mistake. Countries NEVER NEVER to ship to- Russia & Brazil. Horrific postal systems and loads of scammers. And yes I am condemning both countries based on 25 years experience dealing with packages internationally. Brazil mainly because so many packages get lost. Russia, well lets just say your experience isn't unique. Unless you know the person in the country I'd just say don't ship there.

It did have insurance. But the post office will not honor an insurance claim on a package that its own tracking says was delivered to the correct address. As far at the USPS is concerned, this package was safely delivered ("Delivered - Front Door/Porch") and is not lost. So the insurance point is moot. Any claim I file will be denied because their tracking shows successful delivery. You can argue up and down that it must have been mis-delivered, but according to their records, it was not. (I talked at length with my postal clerk...there is no way to claim a lost package with a tracking that shows "Delivered")

So, be aware, insurance is not always going to cover you. These things can still happen and you are left without recourse when they do. It's crappy, because we all know the USPS mis-delivers all the time. (I have a mis-delivered package sitting on the countertop right now. It was dropped off with my mail and scanned with my mail, but I have to take it back to the post office when they open on Monday because it is not mine. I'm sure that guy's tracking is saying "Delivered" right now, too.)

So would there have been any way to protect yourself?

There is a way. Stop buying toys you don't really want so you won't need to sell off on a regular basis.

Oh nefasth we might be light years apart on who we like in the hockey world but this made me chuckle quite a bit. Thank you.

What if the buyer files a police report assuming it was stolen? Maybe ask the post office about that.

$50 worth of insurance. That's it.



Preach it.
Far too many collectors-turned-amateur-toy-retailers via Bigcartel sites popping up these days. Can't even browse IG anymore without seeing toys getting pimped out left and right... it's really getting ridiculous

I really had no idea that people offering toys at reasonable prices bugged you guys so much. Me, personally, I am grateful for anyone selling toys they no longer want as it gives me a chance to get things I missed. The more that's out there, the better. Can't see a downside to it. I'd choose feast over famine any day.

But then, hey, I haven't been on skullbrain long enough. Maybe if I hang around for another couple of years, I'll be a delightfully grumpy old man, too.

Haha, you tell 'em . . . i certainly count myself as one of those but that still made me laugh.

Personally, i think if you are funding buying toys by selling toys i dont see any harm in it . . . especially if the prices are fair.
I will be relying on 'amateur toy retailers' much more in the future since Mandarake went down the shitter for UK buyers.

Why is that, Moog? Did they change shipping rates or something?

^^ They used to mark down the value if asked, so collectors in the UK wouldn't get stung by ridiculous charges by our government and parcel force.
The extra charges can be over $40 sometimes . . . .

Also, my favourite Kaiju are made by Bear Model and Mandarake have hiked most BM figure prices up by at least 30% over the last year.
Any hot new-release BM sculpt has its retail price immediately doubled . . . they are like glorified flippers IMO.

Grumpy old men FTW!

I have gotten a handful of toys from these new bigcartel and instagram sellers that were japan exclusives, and from people not on skullbrain. Sold at retail and at fair shipping costs.
I dont have a problem with that at all. It just means you have to follow a few more people to know whats up. I can see that being annoying if you are use to only checking the same regular places all the time.

They still do mark down, at least they did with my last two orders (three days ago).

I feel bad for you UK buyers. Every time I sell something to a UK buyer, they ask me that - to declare it at less - so I know your fees must be outrageous.

It's kind of tricky, though. I explained to a UK ebay buyer once that I had no problem marking it at a lower value, but the risk was that if the package was lost or damaged, then whatever value I marked it at was all she could get as a refund. Because you can't declare one value on the customs form and another value for insurance. When I told her that, she wanted me to mark it full-value, after all.

I used to believe that as long as it was marked "gift," it was fine and the recipient would not have to pay those import fees. But several people have told me that they had to pay fees despite the "gift" designation. Which truly sucks.